Split case 4:1, are these output shaft gears bearing supported?

[fromme]

Thank you for the information. Now I'm about ready to cry and am discouraged. I can either continue on and do what is necessary, or see if AA will take the unused gears back and put it all back together.

I do have a full rebuild kit, and everything is being replaced except for the front output bearing and seal. My H55 is working fine. For the record I bought it with the H55 in it, so I'm out nothing. I don't think I'm willing to put any more money in this thing. In fact I know I'm not. So if I can't use the ebrake, then I guess I'll just remove it completely. I don't need an ebrake and never used it, this one needs to be rebuilt and pads covered in oil. I have a used shaft on the way from Mark already. So maybe I'll recoup some of my money and sell my whole output shaft assembly and ebrake set up.

Can you advise what type of companion shaft (I think that's what it's called, maybe yoke?) I will need to complete this. What will match up to the flange on my driveshaft? I supposed I will need a new rear bearing retainer also. Damn....1 step forward and two steps back on this project.

 

[orangefj45]

Thank you for the information. Now I'm about ready to cry and am discouraged. I can either continue on and do what is necessary, or see if AA will take the unused gears back and put it all back together.

I do have a full rebuild kit, and everything is being replaced except for the front output bearing and seal. My H55 is working fine. For the record I bought it with the H55 in it, so I'm out nothing. I don't think I'm willing to put any more money in this thing. In fact I know I'm not. So if I can't use the ebrake, then I guess I'll just remove it completely. I don't need an ebrake and never used it, this one needs to be rebuilt and pads covered in oil. I have a used shaft on the way from Mark already. So maybe I'll recoup some of my money and sell my whole output shaft assembly and ebrake set up.

Can you advise what type of companion shaft (I think that's what it's called, maybe yoke?) I will need to complete this. What will match up to the flange on my driveshaft? I supposed I will need a new rear bearing retainer also. Damn....1 step forward and two steps back on this project.

take a step back, slow down a little. you're getting way too bummed out about this..........

if you don't need the ebrake then there's a simple solution. get a good used main shaft and the proper companion flange and you're good to go.
you'll be able to sell the ebrake kit for $250-300 no problem. that'll more than pay for the parts you need. heck, i have everything you need and might be interestd in working out some sort of trade for the ebrake parts.

hth

georg

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Put me first in line for the E brake set up. Seriously, I think I could use that assuming the gears were correct.

It is a curiosity for sure-transfer case e-brake with later style output shaft and gears.

 

[fromme]

Alright, let's see if someone can shed some light on this. I hope you are still reading. I may be the biggest dumbass you've seen for a while. Or maybe not, but I'm thoroughly confused now. I should have taken this output shaft completely apart before I started worrying and bought a used shaft from Mark.

I pressed off the low speed gear and found it uses bearings as suspected:

But I also found the journal it rides on is the same exact diameter as the one on the 60 shaft I got from Mark.

So I pressed off the high speed gear and much to my surprise I find it is bushing supported.

So now I'm like WTF! I have one of each.
Out of curiosity I decide to see of the new AA low speed gear fits on my shaft. It does, and seems like it fits perfectly.

I have spent an hour looking and measuring, and measuring again. The thicknesses and widths are all the same. So can anyone tell me why I can't or shouldn't just reuse my original shaft? And why the hell do I have a bearing supported gear and a bushing supported gear? Did I miss something? In everything I read, the word gears is plural leading me to believe they should both be one or the other.

If this works, that would be cool to be able to use my parking brake and get it to work.

 

[hicruise55]

Following closely, hoping to do this exact same thing soon, I have the H55 w 38mm splitcase rebuilt from Aus... Mine has the parking brake conversion that I DON'T "need" I have 60 axles... anyway thanks for pioneering the way and posting the info

Really excited for feedback on the gears as well

 

[orangefj45]

that's a new one on me. never seen a t-case ( from the factory or cobbled together ) with oe bushing and one bearing supported output gear.

run it!

georg

 

[fromme]

Thanks Georg. I'm going to quit questioning it; I can't see a reason why it won't work. Bummer that I paid for a used shaft I don't need, but oh well my mistake.
Because I'm unsure what other shafts look like I'll ask, is it possible the journals the gears ride on are the same diameter and no one needs to develop a set for bearings? Looking at the FSM it shows bearings in only the cases behind autos.

 

[fromme]

Following closely, hoping to do this exact same thing soon, I have the H55 w 38mm splitcase rebuilt from Aus... Mine has the parking brake conversion that I DON'T "need" I have 60 axles... anyway thanks for pioneering the way and posting the info

Really excited for feedback on the gears as well

Thanks, but I'm hardly pioneering anything. I am using the information from Georg's thread, a FSM copy, and the thread made by Hugh Heifer https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/188968-split-case-rebuild-3.html

Without those 3 resources I'd be lost. I will give the information to it's end and let you know how they work out.

Shoot, now I need to find a rebuild kit and get the parking brake to work again I guess.

 

[fromme]

Assembled the output shaft. Did the low speed gear first, then the high speed gear.

All together and everything checks out. The oil clearances are in spec everything seems to be as it should be. This might actually work out for me.

I don't have a fancy Toyota SST to remove the pilot bearing, so I packed it full of grease and use a tight fitting socket and extension and gave it a few good raps with the hammer. The bearing shot out nicely. Then just tap in the new one. Don't go too far with it, just tap it until it is just below flush and even with the bevel in the shaft.

I found a seal in the rebuild kit and finally figured out it was for the speedometer driven gear. This was easy, use a pick to pull the old one out, and use a socket to tap the new one in. Again, be careful not to drive it too far in.

 

[orangefj45]

random thoughts.......


1) most of th ozzie h55fs i've seen had bearing supported output gears in the t-case. might be that all spli cases ( mechanically or vacuumshifted ) after 87 utilized bearing supported gears.

2) i always complete the "tear-down" stage of any rebuild before i install any new parts. for future refferance, i'd recommend removing the pilot bearing in the front of the output shaft before installing any gears or bearings onto it. same goes for any selas or gaskets. tear-down, clean-up and then assembly.



last but not least, looks pretty good to me! make sure you put some oil on the bearings and on the bushings so there's no chance of premature wear or gauling.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[fromme]

Thanks again, all thoughts and input you have are welcomed and appreciated.

I will oil and grease everything before final install. I did put some grease on the bushings on the output gears. I forgot about that silly pilot bearing until I had already assembled the shaft. I've left everything else dry for now because I plan to do a sort of mock up after the machining of the case just to make sure the clearances are good.

Any thoughts on how it is possible to have a bearing and a bushing gear on the output shaft? Is it possible the shaft journals are all the same diameter and they can be interchanged?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Is it possible the shaft journals are all the same diameter and they can be interchanged?

That is exactly what I was thinking and further investigation will be interesting.

 

[fromme]

Bad day today. Started by setting up the Bridgeport and centering the cutting head on the output opening.

My friend Jason making adjustments and extending the flycutter blade after every pass. We had to do this manually.

So then I came to realize my wondering and fears about the amount of material being left were a reality. As you can see, we didn't cut down too deep, and we cut the radius to the spec that AA stated. Another thing that AA failed on in the instructions is how deep to machine inside the case for the low speed gear. They also failed to give the diameter of the low speed gear and the required clearance for it.
So when we finished the final pass for the low speed gear I wanted to see if there was any kind of strength left. I took my pick and it went right through it like paper. It's only thin in the middle and down unside the case. You can see those indentations are tapered, so the higher up the more material is left.

Without rambling too much more I'll just say that it's ridiculous to have to take so much material out of such a peculiar spot. Not too crazy about this design. Even if we had left .010 more and not done that last pass it would still be too thin for my liking. What I'm saying is that in order to get these gears inside the case, you have to make some major concessions. I'm not digging it at this point.
I have a friend who is a welder by trade, he's taking the case to work with him Monday and will try and build it up on the outside where it's thin. But I still am unsure if this is worth salvaging.

 

[hicruise55]

OUCH that sucks!!! How much is AA charging to do the milling or come with purchase?

 

[fromme]

I think they want $125 plus shipping both ways. Looking again at the thread George has in the hardcore forum, there is no doubt in my mind that I machined this to the proper specs. I don't know how many people have done this but I am certain their cases are just as thin in this area. It doesn't make sense to me. Id rather have a 3.9:1 gearset and not have to mill as much off.
Im going.to sit on this for a few more days but I'm considering sending them back and source a new rear case half and forget this ever happened.

 

[twistedspline]

My gear sets just came in to the shop today. (Cruiser Outfitters) Thanks again Kurt. Im going to actually try and hand grind my case to see if I can fit the gears lol.... I know I know im not supposed to do that bla bla bla.... If I poke through I think im going to try and tig a patch on the outside of the case... Seems like a stronger option and less of a hassle than worrying about punching through that thin of a spot. Just my idea for a fix probably a ghetto one at that. Ide rather patch the ousted and have a bit of ugly than worry about thin walled areas of a case.

 

[fromme]

I think that it doesn't matter either way. If you don't punch through, the wall be so thin that problems will happen later. If I could do it again, I'd have sent it to AA and paid the $125. But even then, the wall will be too thin like I said. I don't see how this could be done by hand from the beginning. The tolerances are so close that it doesn't seem possible without using a precision machine. I'm curious to see your results.
The welder came through for me. I think this will work. At least I'm going to try it since I'm just about there. Worst case scenario is later I have to pull the rear case back off and replace it.
He had to chase the hole for a bit before there was enough material to weld. He welded inside and out. I'm just going to grind the welds by hand instead of setting up on the Bridgeport again.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

That turned out very well.

Very good info on the wall thickness thing-thanks for posting. I'm thinking maybe add material outside first, then machine.

 

[twistedspline]

After looking at your pics im betting it would be easier to build up weld on the outside before I grind. Already having the extra material there seems like it would be a bonus.... Ive done a few scout dana 300 4 to 1 gears that way but the tolerances are nowhere near that tight.... Also after looking at your pics and what you had to do it has given me the confidence if I do punch through the fix for it will be relatively simple so im not to worried.... After I get through my ordeal Ill post a thread on what I had to do to get it to work with the hand grinding and welding. I have a feeling more of us here on mud have home access to tig welders than mills and while I can pay to have a shop machine it im kind of wanting to know if an average person can really instal these gears themselves....

 

[fromme]

Did a little grinding and finished up with a course sanding roll. It isn't pretty, but it worked. I think it will be fine. Clearances seem just fine. Not much else to say really. It isn't perfect and may not be acceptable to some, and they are just being quiet. If it functions then I'll be happy.