Source of a death wobble? (1 Viewer)

[mypancreasbroke]

Im in the process of another flush and fill as I take care of some cooling system pm, and since I've had a long lasting death wobble, thought I'd just poke around a little bit while the block and radiator drain.

I've read so many threads about everyone's experience and fixes for the death wobble, but I will admit I am a 0 when it comes to suspension and steering on my truck. Wheels have always balanced fine, alignment numbers have been just fine, caster is in spec. But I did notice this piece seems to have no lateral movement, but does rotate a bit with some force applied. Is this movement normal, or is something loose, and if so, could this be the source of my wobble?



Thanks for any input.

 

[9780LC]

That's normal. Check the tie rod ends on the back side of the axle. Death wobble can be an ordeal to track down.

 

[NLXTACY]

FWIW I tracked down mine which was a little different than others. I had very worn springs and one bad rear shock and this was all back when I was stock height. My death wobble was actually my truck bouncing side to side on the rear bump stops. Scary as hell at times.

 

[Dragos80]

Im in the process of another flush and fill as I take care of some cooling system pm, and since I've had a long lasting death wobble, thought I'd just poke around a little bit while the block and radiator drain.

I've read so many threads about everyone's experience and fixes for the death wobble, but I will admit I am a 0 when it comes to suspension and steering on my truck. Wheels have always balanced fine, alignment numbers have been just fine, caster is in spec. But I did notice this piece seems to have no lateral movement, but does rotate a bit with some force applied. Is this movement normal, or is something loose, and if so, could this be the source of my wobble?



Thanks for any input.

I'll have you know mine does not move at all. Solid.

I would start there and move on to the steering stabilizer.

 

[Phildoh]

Don't forget to check wheel and trunion bearings as well. Mine were all a bit loose after a fresh rebuild and about 2500mi, and I noticed an exercise so slight wobble starting to develop, so when I changed the oil I rolled out the jack and started checking everything. Passenger knuckle was a little loose, as were the wheel bearings, and my panhard bar became loose. Tightened everything up to Toyota specs and no more wobble!

 

[mypancreasbroke]

Thanks guys for the replay. I'm trying to memorize all the part names, reunion bearing, pan bards, etc... if the wife falls asleep in a bit I'll spend some quality time with the fsm as well. I know that the same rod in the video that is behind the front axle is also 'loose' like this one, with a bit more play. Again no lateral movement, but does rotate somewhat. I've ignored the problem by just swerving around as I drive, but today was the worst it's wobbled yet... and of course with the in the truck, so now her view of me holding on to an 'impractical' vehicle feels more reinforced... women...

 

[Phildoh]

That play in the video is normal. That's your tie-rod ends moving like normal. If they didnt move at all, or were extremely easy to move then I'd be more interested in them. The bit if resistance seen in the video is aok. Your video is the drag link, the tie-rod is the one behind the axle, and the panhard bar is the other link on the front, that "locates" your axle. The trunion bearings are in the knuckle, make steering possible. We're all here to help each other, got questions just ask!
Phildoh

 

[greentruck]

First thing I'd check are the wheel bearings up front. There are other things that can come into play, but loose wheel bearings are a major culprit. Grab the tire at the top and try to shake it. It'll either be solid feeling or shaky.

 

[mypancreasbroke]

That play in the video is normal. That's your tie-rod ends moving like normal. If they didnt move at all, or were extremely easy to move then I'd be more interested in them. The bit if resistance seen in the video is aok. Your video is the drag link, the tie-rod is the one behind the axle, and the panhard bar is the other link on the front, that "locates" your axle. The trunion bearings are in the knuckle, make steering possible. We're all here to help each other, got questions just ask!
Phildoh

Alright, so was under the truck a split second again, and got this of the front back tie rod, it has much more swivel/rotations to it... could this be a problem? I'm off work tomorrow and hoping to check all my tie rod ends to see if any need to be replaced, but still not sure how much swivel is acceptable/tolerable.

 

[mypancreasbroke]

First thing I'd check are the wheel bearings up front. There are other things that can come into play, but loose wheel bearings are a major culprit. Grab the tire at the top and try to shake it. It'll either be solid feeling or shaky.

Yeah, I've kept my eye on this, bearings have been good and tight.

 

[Phildoh]

Tie rod looks ok, but without jacking up a tire and checking for side to side, and up and down play it's hard to say. Your tie rod boot is shot!

 

[normiex]

A quick way to look for play in the steering is to get somebody to wobble the steering wheel side to side while your under the truck and look and feel around for play in the components with the wheels on the ground, just watch were you put your hands and leave the engine turned off and rear wheels chocked so you don't get run over.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

First of all, are you actually having death wobble? When it happens do you think "Holy SH*T I am about to die!!!!" (that's death wobble) or is it more like "Huh, this steering wheel shimmy is mildly irritating"?



^^^Secondly, what Normiex said. That is by far the easiest way to locate a loose component.

If nothing is obvious after that you need to get the tires up off the ground.

Grab tire/wheel at 12/6 oclock and try move back and forth. Then grab at 3/9 oclock and do the same. Both of these checks use an alternating push/pull on opposite sides. Does that make any sense?

With the tire off the ground about an inch put a prybar between the floor and the bottom of the tire and and try to lift the tire up and down. This can reveal worn or loose trunion bearings.

If you haven't replaced the panhard bushings I would do those just because. If you have OME caster correction bushings I would check those closely too as they are known to wear out quicker than rubber bushings.

Death Wobble:

 

[BlueCruiser84]

I keep rewatching that video. I've had that at 70 mph on the interstate in a Jeep. "death wobble" is an appropriate name...

 

[mypancreasbroke]

I keep rewatching that video. I've had that at 70 mph on the interstate in a Jeep. "death wobble" is an appropriate name...

After the drove next to me the other day as it happened, and immediately called me yelling 'your car is bouncing everywhere! The wheels are like, shaking side to side all over!' I got this video on the drive back home. This was a pretty mild shaking that I quickly corrected. I haven't been able to drive a straight line in quite a while (and alignment numbers are spot on) and am surprised I haven't been pulled over by an officer thinking I was drunk.



Hopefully getting out in a few minutes and jacking the thing up and getting to spend some time looking for the source.

 

[Phildoh]

Yeah, that's death wobble. I'd check wheel bearings, as that's a bit of a job being a noob, then grab some wrenches and sockets and check everything under the front end. Again, the tie rod and drag link look normal, but without seeing it in person I can't make the final call on that. Get a new tie rod boot on there, and if that's been broken for a while then the tie rod end has likely been compromised. Might need to replace it.

 

[greentruck]

If "death wobble" requires two wheels shaking, then maybe I only had a half-dead "zombie wobble" with the wheel bearing. It was overdue for service (30k+ finishing my diss, life gets in the way, other bad excuses, enuf said) and may have been a little loose to begin with. It was my first LandCruiser service in a couple of decades when done to fix the dealership's lame attempt (lasted a week)...maybe it was a couple of decades since his last one? But I digress and this one was on me.

In any case, loong straightaway, approaching a 4-way stop, when I just gently let off the gas, but without yet braking...wobble, WOBBLE, WOBBLE...the wife said WTF and she NEVER pays attention to the weird sounds and vibrations of the truck. I gently applied braking, anticipating maybe losing a wheel...and it was obvious which one.

The truck stays mostly in town the last couple of years (been busy as noted, sad to say for adventuring...) so this may have sneaked up without notice prior to this rare long trip of recent months. I think the straightaway got the unwelcome slack set up just right so that equilibrium broke down when I lifted my foot gently. Coming off the gas hard might not have done it, which is how I often drive when the wife's not on board.

Drove with care the rest of the trip and had no repeat, but it's mostly a twisty route...I did a quick inspect and tighten...it wasn't much but very obviously not an issue to ignore...then serviced it ASAP.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

After the drove next to me the other day as it happened, and immediately called me yelling 'your car is bouncing everywhere! The wheels are like, shaking side to side all over!' I got this video on the drive back home. This was a pretty mild shaking that I quickly corrected. I haven't been able to drive a straight line in quite a while (and alignment numbers are spot on) and am surprised I haven't been pulled over by an officer thinking I was drunk.



Hopefully getting out in a few minutes and jacking the thing up and getting to spend some time looking for the source.

Yup. Death wobble!!

Maybe get with your local cruiser club and have a Someone with mechanical experience help you look over the front end. If it's getting that bad, though, you should be able to spot something loose using the methods above.

In my experience death wobble isn't usually caused by one single thing. So it might take some time and money to fix it right.

Also, don't let anyone sell you a steering stabilizer!!!!

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

In my experience death wobble isn't usually caused by one single thing. So it might take some time and money to fix it right.

Also, don't let anyone sell you a steering stabilizer!!!!

I agree. When I last looked the steering over things were copacetic, but that was when we bought the truck, 30k+ ago.

If I were to have another episode, I'd dig a little deeper. There is probably more play than nominal in our truck already, don't know, but AFAIK, nothing on the steering has ever been serviced be appearances, looks factory. But the TRE's may be needing attention, it's a LandCruiser but it's not invulnerable when it gets venerable...

 

[mypancreasbroke]

Alright, front end is in the air, no one is around to turn the wheel for me... no movement from 12 and 6 so seems my wheel bearings are still nice and tight, but definite movement on both wheels when held and shook from 3 and 9. Also a clunk from the lateral control arm where it meets the frame, so I'm guessing I need new bushings there. Should I be seeing no movement when I shake the wheel at 3 and 9, or a little bit? I'm assuming I've got more play than should be tolerated. I'd try to get another video to show whats going on, but nowhere good to put my iphone, and I don't want to subject yall to my plumbers crack...