So, does one really need a 240V MIG?

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e9999

e9999

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been keeping track a bit of the discussions here on welders


first I thought that a 120V welder is just fine for stuff around the garage and house

then it became clear that all the real welder types here strongly recommended to get a 240V one saying that the 120 would soon prove to be too small etc and might as well get the good one right away. Good point I thought, these guys know what they are talking about and nice consensus on the matter IIRC (MUD at its best :))
Unfortunately, I don't have 240 readily available so I shelved the welder idea since it was clear I should only get the 240.


But since then I actually started to practice a bit with a 120V MIG (Lincoln) at work and I was surprised at how well this thing is doing on rather thick stuff. I still suck at it, but I'm guessing it would do fine with 1/4" stuff with some skill. That got me thinking that a 120V unit may not be so bad after all given that I can't envision needing to weld a bunch of 3/8 or 1/2" stuff on the cruiser. And I guess even then I could do multiple passes perhaps.



Sooo, is a 120V welder such a bad purchase after all for most of us?
 
IME a 120v can't handle 1/4" or even 3/16" comfortably. It will stick stuff together, but the welds are weak. It is difficult for me to get good penetration with my Lincoln 120HD (120v), and I have to use flux-core wire, which is messy. (I have gas on the welder, but flux-core gives a stronger weld vs. MIG with equal power.) I got a Hobart 185 and MIG welds are easy, penetrate well, and pretty.

I used my 120v to weld sliders and bumpers, but couldn't trust it for critical parts, like suspension stuff. Then I started thinking about what could happen if a tow point failed while being used, and that scared me away from building bumpers with the 120v.

240v is pretty easy to wire- you've probably said before why you don't have it- want to refresh my memory?

-Spike
 
I doubt that your single pass welds on 1/4" material would pass any tests. You are basically at max capacity and close to zero duty cycle on those machines and I wouldn't trust any of those welds on a structural or recovery/extraction point on your vehicle. For sheet metal work, or welding up cracks on your lawn mower, 120v is great - but 220v machines will go just as low too ;)

If you want a good machine, buy a used Millermatic 240v machine and learn how to use it. A weld that looks pretty isn't necessarily a good weld.
 
awww, come on, throw me a bone or something... :)
 
I have a 110V welder. I built a front bumper with it, and some other smaller stuff. However, I designed the bumper in such a way that I wouldn't be putting welds under too much stress when winching or pulling with the shackles. Here's a post from by build thread where one of the guys a metal tech explains how to get good welds with 110V (not that I did any of that). Besides good prep he recommends using both flux core wire plus shield gas...I probably wouldn't use my welder for anything dealing with suspension, etc., as stated above, but for what I do, it works ok.

IH8MUD™ Forums - View Single Post - Front Bumper Project
 
If you use flux core and spend some time on the welds, a 110V welder will do almost anything you need it to do..
 
freds40 said:
Yup, get the biggest your wallet will allow and start practicing.
My Millermatic 251 is an awesome machine. I can weld 1/2" down to thin sheet metal all with single pass running .035 wire. VERY versatile machine.
Click to expand...

I've got the same one, treated myself to a Christmas present/writeoff and it is one of the best investments I've ever made in terms of tools and I only buy good tools. I used a Millermatic 210 for a while and the 251 is in a class of its own. Hard to justify for a garage mechanic unless you've got a really understanding wife but don't sell yourself short - it doesn't need to be new, just make sure it's BLUE!
 
I had a 110volt MIG no gas flux core.

Now I have a 200amp AC/DC TIG/MMA combo unit with argon. Will never will miss the 110volt unit. New welds look so nice. Only done up to 1/4" with it so far, but I am sure it will not break :)

Not sure if you have 110VAC, why you don't have a second side up the panel for the other phase to get 220? Did you run a single leg to a shop from the house?
 
haystax said:
I've got the same one, treated myself to a Christmas present/writeoff and it is one of the best investments I've ever made in terms of tools and I only buy good tools. I used a Millermatic 210 for a while and the 251 is in a class of its own. Hard to justify for a garage mechanic unless you've got a really understanding wife but don't sell yourself short - it doesn't need to be new, just make sure it's BLUE!
Click to expand...

Hobart's now made by miller, mine came with a miller stinger on it. I've built tons of stuff with my 110, 220's too big for sheetmetal work.
 
I'm pretty sure there is at least 240 1 phase at the main box on the other side of the house, but no 240 outlet anywhere around the house so it would take serious conduit laying and digging -or a rather long extension- to get 240 to my garage. Ergo my hesitation to get a 240 machine -and of course those are quite a bit more expensive too. So, I'd be willing to give up a bit on the extra thick stuff to get a welder faster and cheaper in the house... :)


But can't you dial down the 240 enough that you can indeed do sheetmetal or thin stuff with it?
 
e9999 said:
But can't you dial down the 240 enough that you can indeed do sheetmetal or thin stuff with it?
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Yes - with some of the 240v machines you only have a series of 'taps' to adjust the heat range, the newer versions like the 251 have an infinite control on the power and feed rate so you can really fine tune for small stuff. I've never used anything besides .035 wire in mine but a smaller wire will pull less amperage and weld 'cooler' at the same heat setting.

What do you envision building? Are you going to do any serious fab work or just try to pick up a new skill/hobby?
 
e9999 said:
But can't you dial down the 240 enough that you can indeed do sheetmetal or thin stuff with it?
Click to expand...

Yup. :D

freds40 said:
Yup, get the biggest your wallet will allow and start practicing.
My Millermatic 251 is an awesome machine. I can weld 1/2" down to thin sheet metal all with single pass running .035 wire. VERY versatile machine.
Click to expand...
 
those 120v welders are great but i think you will out grow it FAST. I have the Lincoln 120v it has served me well for a few years but where i am now i need a more powerful welder i am regretting not buying the 240v
 
e9999 said:
I'm pretty sure there is at least 240 1 phase at the main box on the other side of the house, but no 240 outlet anywhere around the house so it would take serious conduit laying and digging -or a rather long extension- to get 240 to my garage. Ergo my hesitation to get a 240 machine -and of course those are quite a bit more expensive too. So, I'd be willing to give up a bit on the extra thick stuff to get a welder faster and cheaper in the house... :)
Click to expand...

Is the garage attached or detached? Pulling wire isn't too difficult. I've run multiple 110 and 240 lines on my last 3 houses so the garage was up to my standards. :cool: 2 attached garages and 1 detached.
 
I have MM210 and it can do sheet metal. Not that I'm very good at it. I have welded structural welds joining 3/8 plate and it has plenty of power for that.

The nice thing with a 220v welder is you never really need to question if the machine is up to the job, instead, the skill of the weldor becomes the determining factor.

The MM251 is a very nice machine, but not really needed by most home hobby welders, (though If I find a used one cheap, I'm going to trade up.:D)

For Eric-I think you need to ask yourself, what you really plan to weld? I bought mine to build my FJ40, but if you don't have a specific need like that, most of your welding will be making small brackets, doing small repairs etc. Most of that can be done with a 110v machine. If you plan to fab bumpers, sliders and structural bits, then a 220v machine is what you want.

If you don't have easy to access 220v and you want to weld, that makes your choice pretty simple.

Miller had a well regarded machine that could do 110v or 220v, that might be worth looking at-it was called the DVI or something.
 
Right now I'm thinking mostly small stuff, brackets etc. But I can also see that I'd probably enjoy it enough that I'd get into bumpers, skidplates etc eventually. And I do usually try to get the good tool right away rather than upgrade later on.

I do get the impression here though that you can get a better weld with a bigger machine even for stuff thin enough that it's nominally suitable for the smaller machine. Is that true or just my imagination -and if the former, why?

(OK, to be honest it's also a question of instant gratification. If I get a welder I want to bring it home and immediately (booger) weld stuff! :D )


house has a crawl space. garage is attached but slab. I don't think it'd be trivial to run conduits. Especially since I don't know anything about it.




Now, come to think of it, maybe it's just wrong to lump all the 120V together. Aren't some more "capable" than others? Of course, ultimately, I only got so many amps out of my 120V plugs anyway...
 
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Get the electrical stuff done first so when you come home with the welder you will have your instant gratification ;) :D.

Also, if the house is crawl space and the garage is slab, I'm gonna guess there is a step or two b/w the garage and house? If so, it shouldn't be all that hard to run the wire. The conduit(overkill I think) would just run up to the exterior wall of the garage(under the house) and then poke through near the bottom of the wall and turn up into a panel/outlet.
 
We had a quote of $500 to run 50 amp 220v to our attached garage. I did not think that was too bad, but then it's only about 15 feet from the main electrical panel. You really only need 1 220 plug, although more is nice if you get a decent sized compressor or the plasma cutter you will soon want.

I'm making do on a 30 amp 220 circuit that was existing, and so far, I have not tripped the breaker.
 
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