Should it stay or should it go? (1 Viewer)

[Tex68w]

I have mentioned in a few other threads that I have a love/hate relationship with the 4Runner, it's been a very polarizing vehicle for us. For starters, we are on our third one in four years so we obviously like them but we also can't stand them in the same breath and we keep buying them in an attempt to convince ourselves that we love them more lol. They are about as reliable as any modern car can get, they are affordable, they are the perfect size for most trails, they have great resale value, and the aftermarket support is very healthy. On the other end they are full of plastic that makes them feel rather cheap, the glass and body panels are paper thin, the motor and tranny combo leave a lot to be desired, it lacks most modern tech and safety features, the road noise is very noticeable (loud cabin), it gets tossed around in high winds, it wanders all over the road at highway speeds, the fuel economy is marginal (but acceptable), and everyone and their brother has one. Now some of those complaints are subjective and others are simply a product of a vehicle in its class/size, but they are worth pointing out.

For the two of us it works well around town and on short weekend get aways. However, we have two 100lb dogs which eat up most of the interior even with the seats down, and we spend a lot of time on the highway to and from work and the ranch where its most glaring fault/dislike is illuminated. For solo camping trips it's perfect for myself to camp inside, but add a second person and the interior for sleeping is out of the question without removing everything, including the fridge/freezer. Most items have to go on the roof when traveling further reducing its handling and performance. It won't tow a decent sized boat and I am not willing to dump thousands into a supercharger that has issues of its own and will likely reduce its lifespan and reliability. I love that it will likely run for forever if properly maintained and the aftermarket is here to stay and likely only improve going forward. Looks are subjective but I think it's a timeless design and the soaring sales numbers seem to back that up.

Should we find our way back into a full-size HD truck we open the opportunity of a diesel and its towing capabilities along with the multitude of campers and bed build out options. I hate that I would have to start from scratch and should I not end up back in a PW I will have to likely purchase gears, a front locker, lift, wheels/tires, bumpers, etc. so it won't be a cheap proposition. The same can be said if we pick up a second 200 series and while it solves the power, ride, sound, and to some degree the space, it still doesn't provide us with a better sleeping option or a platform more adept at towing large loads or a bed to keep the stinky stuff out of the cabin.

In an ideal world we'd keep the 4Runner for use around town and solo trips, but that's just not in the cards right now with all of our other irons in the fire. So chime in, let me know what you think we should do or maybe what you would do if you found yourself in a similar position. Thanks!

 

[AFdude]

I empathize with you. I'm holding out for another 200, but it has to be right; Grey and terra. But the redesign just has to be on its way so I think I'm going to reassess in the fall. Also, the new Turndra may be an option too, maybe?

 

[Tex68w]

I empathize with you. I'm holding out for another 200, but it has to be right; Grey and terra. But the redesign just has to be on its way so I think I'm going to reassess in the fall. Also, the new Turndra may be an option too, maybe?

Yea I know what you mean about timing, there's a lot on the horizon towards the end of this year. The new Super Duty with facelift, 10 speed auto, and new 7.3L gasser, the new 2019 Ram HD with 8 speed auto and facelift, the new Bronco, more than likely a leak of the 300 series (hopefully), and maybe even a leak of the 6th Gen 4Runner (long shot), but I doubt I'd be interested as it wouldn't solve the space, build, and power issues. I don't have a problem with waiting until the fall, it's the not touching the 4Runner and continuing to modify it that I will struggle with, I just can't leave well enough alone. I like the Grey with Terra and White with Terra so I can relate there. As much as I'd love to have Toyota reliability and quality in a truck I don't think I could settle for a half-ton and it's reduced towing and payload numbers when compared to a HD truck. Odds are the new 2021 Tundra will likely sell like hot cakes and be the answer for a lot of guys in our position but it's just too soon to tell.

I am envious of your 4Runner, I have seen your build and that's where I was/am headed with mine, have Goose-Gear on order, I have a ARB Summit bumper on hold, and I was planning on installing King extended travel here in the coming weeks. These really are great SUV's and they make the perfect exploring platform but they fall short in a lot of areas that one would be accustom to having more if you've had larger vehicles in the past. I have everything on a stand still at the moment until I can figure this out, I don't want to continue to sink money into the 4Runner that I'll never get back out if I ultimately end up dumping it in a year or less.

 

[r2m]

Why bother us with these menial questions?
Why don't you just get one of those Magic 8 Ball decision makers and be done with it!

Amazon product ASIN B00001ZWV7

 

[Tex68w]

Why bother us with these menial questions?
Why don't you just get one of those Magic 8 Ball decision makers and be done with it!
View attachment 1947039
Amazon product ASIN B00001ZWV7

I am thinking you should have voted 'Get Bent' lol

I ask because I like to see what others in my position have done. This is not an uncommon crossroads to find ones self in. But I appreciate you being annoyed by the thread.

 

[r2m]

Au contraire my fellow GX enthusiast!
Not bothered at all.
Just trying to inject a little humor.

To tell you the truth, I personally hate having to make those kinds of decisions and having some thoughtful insight form fellow GT'ers and 4R's, I am sure is greatly appreciated!

 

[AFdude]

Would you consider another LX?

 

[Tex68w]

Would you consider another LX?

Not another new one or 2016+ simply because there are no bumper or rack options for them at the moment. That said, we love AHC and there's no denying the nicer interior appointments in comparison to those of the LC. I know Dissent will eventually have bumpers for it and there are a few who have modified an ARB to fit but IMHO it'd not clean look.

If I pick up a second 200 it'll will most definitely be a LC to take advantage of the currently available aftermarket options and simply to have a bit of variety.

 

[Qball]

If you have to convince yourself that you love it then you obviously don't love it, on that note alone sell it! Camping situation can be solved by easy pop-up tents and RTT. Handling can be upgraded with good shocks and swaybar upgrade or KDDS, power upgrade is obviously not so simple. If you want comfortable, reliable, powerful and capable offroaders then you don't really have many choices at all. Also size matters, the new LX and LC are a little big for the jeep trails if that's something you want to do, Texas is more open so even F450 is fine.

If you need to tow large load just about every day or every weekend then go for big diesel trucks. It's silly to own a giant truck just to tow and haul a couple of things from costco a few times a year, I don't need truck nuts and can call delivery service.

Regardless of your decision, some compromises will be made. The ideal rig that fits your description and mine is a resto-mod 80, one day!

 

[Tex68w]

If you have to convince yourself that you love it then you obviously don't love it, on that note alone sell it! Camping situation can be solved by easy pop-up tents and RTT. Handling can be upgraded with good shocks and swaybar upgrade or KDDS, power upgrade is obviously not so simple. If you want comfortable, reliable, powerful and capable offroaders then you don't really have many choices at all. Also size matters, the new LX and LC are a little big for the jeep trails if that's something you want to do, Texas is more open so even F450 is fine.

If you need to tow large load just about every day or every weekend then go for big diesel trucks. It's silly to own a giant truck just to tow and haul a couple of things from costco a few times a year, I don't need truck nuts and can call delivery service.

Regardless of your decision, some compromises will be made. The ideal rig that fits your description and mine is a resto-mod 80, one day!

That's a very valid point and that alone is enough of a reason not to keep it. I always have the wandering eye when it comes to vehicles so I am not surprised, I am just grateful I am not that way with women lol. Sure, I can go throw on some springs and shocks and it'll handle better and be better equipped for the added payload, and I can go a bit bigger on the tires at that point too. We absolutely despise RTT's so that's out and even if we did have one up top then where would all of our gear go? We need that interior room for the dogs, fridge, etc.

It's funny you mention the F450 because I have kicked around the idea of one on super singles and a flatbed so that I can run a flatbed FWC, that would obviously be the most costly and largest option possible. At the end of the day the most important attributes are the ability to carry all of us, off-road chops, and a place to sleep or the room and/or capability of accepting a sleep platform of some type. 90% of what we do is the hit the beach, run the back lake trails (which accommodate a full size) and BDR's through the hill country. We do the occasional trips to the off-road parks and an annual trek to somewhere like Colorado or Utah or Big Bend where we might access some actual trails, this is where a large off-roader will suffer. I can always hop on the bike at that point and save my paint and body work lol.

We don't need a diesel day in and day out but I find myself using it more often than not when we do have one in the garage. In all honesty a gasser HD would suffice for 90% of what we'd need it for, but down here, aside from a Power Wagon, the gasser HD's have horrid resale, everyone wants/needs a diesel. This is where the Land Cruiser comes in. The 200 can tow just as much as a Power Wagon is rated for, gives me slightly more room, more power, just as good off-road albeit a little bigger, and it allows for the long-term reliability, dependability and resale. The only glaring drawback is yet again the sleep system and how to tackle that, unfortunately, short of a truck I don't think it's possible to have a sleep system that doesn't directly impact my interior payload with out large loads on the roof or moving things around every evening in order to free up the interior space.

In regards to an 80 series, we've already been down that road a few years back. In hindsight I maybe should have kept ours, done a body-off restoration and dropped a Cummins 2.8L in it and called it a day. Man that would have been a sweet rig with the little diesel.

 

[Qball]

That's a very valid point and that alone is enough of a reason not to keep it. I always have the wandering eye when it comes to vehicles so I am not surprised, I am just grateful I am not that way with women lol. Sure, I can go throw on some springs and shocks and it'll handle better and be better equipped for the added payload, and I can go a bit bigger on the tires at that point too. We absolutely despise RTT's so that's out and even if we did have one up top then where would all of our gear go? We need that interior room for the dogs, fridge, etc.

It's funny you mention the F450 because I have kicked around the idea of one on super singles and a flatbed so that I can run a flatbed FWC, that would obviously be the most costly and largest option possible. At the end of the day the most important attributes are the ability to carry all of us, off-road chops, and a place to sleep or the room and/or capability of accepting a sleep platform of some type. 90% of what we do is the hit the beach, run the back lake trails (which accommodate a full size) and BDR's through the hill country. We do the occasional trips to the off-road parks and an annual trek to somewhere like Colorado or Utah or Big Bend where we might access some actual trails, this is where a large off-roader will suffer. I can always hop on the bike at that point and save my paint and body work lol.

We don't need a diesel day in and day out but I find myself using it more often than not when we do have one in the garage. In all honesty a gasser HD would suffice for 90% of what we'd need it for, but down here, aside from a Power Wagon, the gasser HD's have horrid resale, everyone wants/needs a diesel. This is where the Land Cruiser comes in. The 200 can tow just as much as a Power Wagon is rated for, gives me slightly more room, more power, just as good off-road albeit a little bigger, and it allows for the long-term reliability, dependability and resale. The only glaring drawback is yet again the sleep system and how to tackle that, unfortunately, short of a truck I don't think it's possible to have a sleep system that doesn't directly impact my interior payload with out large loads on the roof or moving things around every evening in order to free up the interior space.

In regards to an 80 series, we've already been down that road a few years back. In hindsight I maybe should have kept ours, done a body-off restoration and dropped a Cummins 2.8L in it and called it a day. Man that would have been a sweet rig with the little diesel.

Wow sweet 80 you had! I’m the same way with cars and I’m glad I kept my 80 because I can’t find anything to replace her with. A lot of online articles talks about the GX chill be the new 80 or can replace the 80 but I don’t think so.


I’ve also thought about diesel/full size trucks but one thing I absolutely hate is having all my crap outside!!! Dust and water will get it to absolutely everything, fortunately ARB has the new element fridge that supposedly can handle being outside but I still want to lock my rig up so I can go to lunch. Then here at where I live even the 80 sometimes feels a bit big.

Honestly even with a big F450 you will end up with a RTT for sleeping solutions anyways because fridge and gear will take up a lot of space even in a big truck bed. A quick pop up tent from amazon really solves most of your problem when it comes to sleeping, unless you really don’t want to sleep on the ground then back to RTT again. Sleeping inside won’t be an option in the big trucks either unless you sleep sideways on the second row. By the time you build something for sleeping and gears you would be end up with an RV so just go straight for that. One vehicle that could fit your bill would be sprinter sportsmobile, they even has a toy box configuration. Diesel with 25MPG and size of a big truck, it might be the perfect vehicle for you since size isn’t a concern, you can haul 4 or more bikes or 3 motorcycles back there. Really sick!

Toy Haulers + Rear Garage + Custom Van Conversions - Sportsmobile

Sportsmobile builds lots of conversions for toy haulers. There are lots of possibilities, so whatever your needs, we will be glad to work with you.

sportsmobile.com

#vanlife

 

[Tex68w]

Wow sweet 80 you had! I’m the same way with cars and I’m glad I kept my 80 because I can’t find anything to replace her with. A lot of online articles talks about the GX chill be the new 80 or can replace the 80 but I don’t think so.


I’ve also thought about diesel/full size trucks but one thing I absolutely hate is having all my crap outside!!! Dust and water will get it to absolutely everything, fortunately ARB has the new element fridge that supposedly can handle being outside but I still want to lock my rig up so I can go to lunch. Then here at where I live even the 80 sometimes feels a bit big.

Honestly even with a big F450 you will end up with a RTT for sleeping solutions anyways because fridge and gear will take up a lot of space even in a big truck bed. A quick pop up tent from amazon really solves most of your problem when it comes to sleeping, unless you really don’t want to sleep on the ground then back to RTT again. Sleeping inside won’t be an option in the big trucks either unless you sleep sideways on the second row. By the time you build something for sleeping and gears you would be end up with an RV so just go straight for that. One vehicle that could fit your bill would be sprinter sportsmobile, they even has a toy box configuration. Diesel with 25MPG and size of a big truck, it might be the perfect vehicle for you since size isn’t a concern, you can haul 4 or more bikes or 3 motorcycles back there. Really sick!

Toy Haulers + Rear Garage + Custom Van Conversions - Sportsmobile

Sportsmobile builds lots of conversions for toy haulers. There are lots of possibilities, so whatever your needs, we will be glad to work with you.

sportsmobile.com

#vanlife

Yea the 80 was nice, triple locked from the factory too and a poverty pack, a rare beast. It was long in the tooth in mileage, the drivetrain was a bit tired and there were some body rust issues that needed to be addressed but it would have been a good candidate for a long term build, that old hindsight right!?

The only way to make a full-size truck work is to add a FWC or a AT Habitat/Summit or a camper shell build out of some sort. Starting over is always a daunting task and you will always spend more to move on and start over than you will to just keep what you've got and make it work or make it more livable. An HD truck could be used to tow a nice travel trailer that could be used as our base camp and use the dirt bikes from there. It's not the ideal scenario but definitely the most comfortable and most livable option. So many possible avenues, it's so hard to narrow down to the one that works best for you.

I love the 4Runner but it's hindered by power, space, and payload, but dammit if it isn't the perfect size for off-road use. You can't have it all but you've gotta be happy day in and day out with what you're driving more so than anything else and when we get on the highway and travel 3+ hours that's where we dislike the 4Runner. Like I said before, if I could keep it for a runabout and local use vehicle it would be perfect but I am not sure I can justify that. It's 120% awesome for 30% of our needs/uses and 30% awesome the other 70% of the time. Those aren't favorable percentages lol.

We've shopped Sportsmobiles, we went and toured their facility in Austin last year and even priced out a few builds. Recently we went and looked at the Winnabego Revel which is a direct competitor to the Sportsmobile Sprinter and I'll be honest, we liked it better. We felt the build out was cleaner and they used nicer materials and it had better attention to detail. Even with a $38K discount we were still looking at $115K for one and I am just not sure it's there, because when you break it down there's a $55K Sprinter van and I don't see $60K in the build out. Sure there's the warranty and factory support and the fact that the build out is already done and ready to use, but man oh man is that a lot of scratch for a weekend use vehicle. I am also well aware of the issues they've had with that power plant so I am bit skeptical not to mention it still does noting more than get you to the trail head, these aren't real off-roaders.

 

[Qball]

Yea the 80 was nice, triple locked from the factory too and a poverty pack, a rare beast. It was long in the tooth in mileage, the drivetrain was a bit tired and there were some body rust issues that needed to be addressed but it would have been a good candidate for a long term build, that old hindsight right!?

The only way to make a full-size truck work is to add a FWC or a AT Habitat/Summit or a camper shell build out of some sort. Starting over is always a daunting task and you will always spend more to move on and start over than you will to just keep what you've got and make it work or make it more livable. An HD truck could be used to tow a nice travel trailer that could be used as our base camp and use the dirt bikes from there. It's not the ideal scenario but definitely the most comfortable and most livable option. So many possible avenues, it's so hard to narrow down to the one that works best for you.

I love the 4Runner but it's hindered by power, space, and payload, but dammit if it isn't the perfect size for off-road use. You can't have it all but you've gotta be happy day in and day out with what you're driving more so than anything else and when we get on the highway and travel 3+ hours that's where we dislike the 4Runner. Like I said before, if I could keep it for a runabout and local use vehicle it would be perfect but I am not sure I can justify that. It's 120% awesome for 30% of our needs/uses and 30% awesome the other 70% of the time. Those aren't favorable percentages lol.

We've shopped Sportsmobiles, we went and toured their facility in Austin last year and even priced out a few builds. Recently we went and looked at the Winnabego Revel which is a direct competitor to the Sportsmobile Sprinter and I'll be honest, we liked it better. We felt the build out was cleaner and they used nicer materials and it had better attention to detail. Even with a $38K discount we were still looking at $115K for one and I am just not sure it's there, because when you break it down there's a $55K Sprinter van and I don't see $60K in the build out. Sure there's the warranty and factory support and the fact that the build out is already done and ready to use, but man oh man is that a lot of scratch for a weekend use vehicle. I am also well aware of the issues they've had with that power plant so I am bit skeptical not to mention it still does noting more than get you to the trail head, these aren't real off-roaders.

That's too funny! Ah the saga of our struggle, definitely a first world problem. If you like the size and would like to go offroad then you might want to test drive the GX but like mention before you need to put a few coins to make it really shine offroad. GX is just about the only surviving dinosaur or alligator from the body on frame era.

As much as I like sportsmobile I personally would get the smallest sprinter 4x4 and mod it myself. It's just a big box and really not that hard to make it somewhat nice, I don't need to be in the lap of luxury. I would insolate the crap out of the shell, hang L-Tracks all over and then put a nice and durable floor. Everything can be secured on the L-Tracks and dedicate a corner to fridge and stuff. Rest of it is all convertible! I'll just sleep on some nice foldable cot with a nice mattress. This way it's an RV, toy hauler, and truck for crap. However, just like you said, it's to get you to the trailhead. BUT you can flat tow a mini truck, having your cake and eat it too! When, actually more like IF I retire then I'll get something like that and tow my resto-moded 80 to utah, navada, yellow stone, canada.........time to get that lotto ticket!

 

[r2m]

I agree Qball, half the fun would be doing all the woodwork and designing everything yourself in one of those 4x4 Sprinters.

 

[1NTRANSIT]

OP- You're relationship with the 4R sounds very familiar to me...

I bought a TE KDSS new in '13. Loved the look. Loved the road manners with KDSS & Bilstein's. Very practical for my needs. Sold mine 2 years ago and still ponder how and when I should buy another...

Overall my experience with the 4R was sort of death by a thousands cuts - embarrassingly low power output, 6 windshield replacements, busted door locks galore, creaky seats and a sunroof drain system designed by an absolute moron.

Go with your gut on this one...

 

[Tex68w]

OP- You're relationship with the 4R sounds very familiar to me...

I bought a TE KDSS new in '13. Loved the look. Loved the road manners with KDSS & Bilstein's. Very practical for my needs. Sold mine 2 years ago and still ponder how and when I should buy another...

Overall my experience with the 4R was sort of death by a thousands cuts - embarrassingly low power output, 6 windshield replacements, busted door locks galore, creaky seats and a sunroof drain system designed by an absolute moron.

Go with your gut on this one...

Only eight months in on this one and we are windshield number three already. The seats suck but other than the ones in the LC and our LX, that seems to be a common Toyota trait lol. No broken locks in any of ours but I’ll keep an eye on that. It’s more than likely to be around for a few more months and then it’ll go on down the road.

The search for “the” car is a struggle and I might be chasing a ghost in the end but I know there’s something more in tune with my needs and desires out there.

 

[mooneywa]

A couple notes... your PW build and SD build on Expo showed your enthusiasm for bigger vehicles. I can't imagine going from a PW down to a 4Runner. I would have to convince myself to love it as well. I know this sound ridiculous, but the 200 is the smallest vehicle I could go.

I just rode around for a weekend in a buddy's Revel in Colorado. Besides some rattling of plates and other stores, it convinced me that it comes very close to the discounted price point in build quality and capability. A winch and some MaxTraxx and it'd go most anywhere. I go the impression the extra $60k is found in the integration of the added on systems. Nothing felt like it was slapped on, but rather designed, engineered, and installed very cleanly. I think it's probably similar in a comparison of the Land Cruiser to any other SUV in that it's all about the execution. I also know another guy that bought one to commute between his air national guard job and his home a few hours away. He sleeps 3-4 nights/wk in the Revel and when he's home, he cleans out, reloads, and takes the family on outings. Said for 2 or less people it's spot on. I'd imagine the resale will be pretty good as well.

I'm still surprised you let your PW go. I never would want to get a FCA vehicle, but after seeing that I was loving the idea of a PW.

 

[mooneywa]

Also, have you seen the new Sierra 2500 AT4s? Duramax and some pretty decent out of the box off-road capability. I don't plan to tow much or that would be at the top of my list.

 

[Tex68w]

A couple notes... your PW build and SD build on Expo showed your enthusiasm for bigger vehicles. I can't imagine going from a PW down to a 4Runner. I would have to convince myself to love it as well. I know this sound ridiculous, but the 200 is the smallest vehicle I could go.

I just rode around for a weekend in a buddy's Revel in Colorado. Besides some rattling of plates and other stores, it convinced me that it comes very close to the discounted price point in build quality and capability. A winch and some MaxTraxx and it'd go most anywhere. I go the impression the extra $60k is found in the integration of the added on systems. Nothing felt like it was slapped on, but rather designed, engineered, and installed very cleanly. I think it's probably similar in a comparison of the Land Cruiser to any other SUV in that it's all about the execution. I also know another guy that bought one to commute between his air national guard job and his home a few hours away. He sleeps 3-4 nights/wk in the Revel and when he's home, he cleans out, reloads, and takes the family on outings. Said for 2 or less people it's spot on. I'd imagine the resale will be pretty good as well.

I'm still surprised you let your PW go. I never would want to get a FCA vehicle, but after seeing that I was loving the idea of a PW.

Thanks for the kind words, it was indeed a cool truck. The new owner has already purchased more mods and plans to use the piss out of it when he gets back stateside soon. You're right, I am more of a full-size kind of guy, I only tried to convince myself that the 4Runner would suffice because we already owned it lol. I will be back in a truck at some point, there's no doubt about that.

Also, have you seen the new Sierra 2500 AT4s? Duramax and some pretty decent out of the box off-road capability. I don't plan to tow much or that would be at the top of my list.

No way in hell I'll put my money towards any GM product, it's that simple.

 

[Ol Yeller]

Now I’m curious about the PW build...link?

Also not up to speed on what a SD is...