Semi-Float axle bearing & seal maintenance

[spressomon]

I ran 1/4" fuel line from both diffs and the t-case up to the firewall several years ago. They terminate with fuel filters for one more measure of insurance. So I was a bit surprised to discover my rear wheel bearings are shot. Mud and dirty water (gee I can't begin to imagine how that happened ) migrated past the rear axle seal into the bearing destroying both. The PS was worse but both rear axle seals and bearings were bad.

To top that off the pinion bearing was shot too; more about this below. Scott, owner of New Mexico Clutch and Brake who also specializes in diff repair and setup told me even if the diff/axle housing is vented, like mine, when a hot diff comes into contact with cold water it will still suck water past the axle seals. I thought, originally, the purpose of active venting was to prevent this from happening.

American Toyota is doing the work (sans 3rd set-up). Special thanks to CDan and Beno for helping kick this to the "front of the pile". Even with that it will be 5-days tomorrow atop the lift.

I've had a vibration, growl and general driveline noises ever since getting the 4.88's installed. I had taken the LC to Sacramento last summer and left it with the diff shop for about 4-days to hopefully get to the bottom of it. But even though the diff shop owner heard and felt the growl and vibe he deemed it "normal". Maybe my current capital infusion into Albuquerque's economy getting all the repairs made is related...or not: But a striking coincidence just the same.

So I guess I can't complain about getting 150K miles...well actually 80K miles put on by me...on the rear bearings. I had replaced the axle seals when I did the 4.88 conversion a little less than 3-years ago.

So just so the rest of you know these SF bearings and seals aren't perfect nor are they "maintenance free". And unlike the FF of 80 and other LC series you can't inspect them nor maintain them.

I, therefore, think to try to uphold the best reliability for the typical off-road conditions I drive will be seriously considering replacing these axle seals and bearings on a 12-18 month frequency. Its either that or installing a custom FF rear axle...and I don't think that's going to happen!



So maybe something to add to FAQ as a reminder.

 

[locrwln1]

Wow, sorry to hear about all of the problems, especially when you are on a trip. Hopefully this will fix your vibe problem. I am still waiting on parts to tackle my vibe problem.

Jack

 

[spressomon]

Wow, sorry to hear about all of the problems, especially when you are on a trip. Hopefully this will fix your vibe problem. I am still waiting on parts to tackle my vibe problem.

Jack

It would have been ready for me to drive out yesterday but they couldn't get one of the axle bearings off so they had to outsource that part of the job. Hopefully this afternoon the 'spressowagon and me will be reunited . The side benefit of all this is that I know ABQ pretty well now and found a couple good 'spresso houses !

Although I thought my custom mountain bikes were expensive to maintain...they got 'nuthin' on 4x4 mucheens! Geez...I might have to get my arse back in shape to lessen the expense of seeing the backcountry

I truly do H8MUD!

 

[scottm]

So, I can't maintain my seals? I should repack my bearings in a year or so, how much harder are we talking compared to the 80?

 

[spressomon]

So, I can't maintain my seals? I should repack my bearings in a year or so, how much harder are we talking compared to the 80?

The wheel bearings on the rear axle of the Hundy's are not serviceable like the full float style on the 80, et al Cruisers. And they are a PITA to replace. There is a pressed on collar/bearing retainer that first needs to be ground off and removed. Then the bearing needs to be removed and a new one reinstalled with special puller. Not an easy task. The outer axle seal however is more easily replaced...just not the bearing.

I just wanted to point out to everyone that unlike the front wheel bearings on a Hundy and rear wheel bearings from other LC series the SF type get replaced typically after catastrophic failure as mine are right now.

I think for those of us that cross axle deep water, mud & snow we might want to consider the rear axle bearings as a more frequent PM item to avoid the very situation I am in right now. I just don't see any other alternative other than some type of full-on custom rear axle & housing swap to a FF design which probably is not cost or labor effective.

 

[scottm]

A 4Runner just became my next vehicle. Wife and I just talked about this last night, but we assumed I can maintain the LC myself which is a value.

 

[spressomon]

Although I don't know I would venture to say/assume all the more modern era Toyota's have gone to "maintenance free" axle bearings. Just like the "for life" tranny fluid: Yeah right! Part of the "throw it away" society we've become...

 

[scottm]

I'm sure the 4Runner would be the same, but for a lot less $ invested. I thought I was getting something significantly better in the LC, not just a bigger SUV.

 

[Buckru]

Really sorry to hear this. I have been researching the hundy as a possibility for the wife and future expedition rig. One of the reasons would be the ability to self service after learning on an 80. Yes, I know their are pros and cons of each. It does appear that wrenching on a 100 is a bit more involved though. As much as everyone here loves the 100, I feel the same for my 80 and hopefully, I am the last owner she'll ever have.

Buck

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

vibe

As for diff breathers and driving through water, yes it will help prevent water entering, but the only sure way is to not drive through water.

As for growl - A pinion bearing can cause a whining noise or even a driveline growl/vibe if they are loose. Typically if pinion bearings are loose enought to growl they wont last 80k. On the flipside a driveshaft vibe/growl, can cause pinion bearings to fail, becoming loose and in turn allowing the driveline to growl/vibe more.

I ran 1/4" fuel line from both diffs and the t-case up to the firewall several years ago. They terminate with fuel filters for one more measure of insurance. So I was a bit surprised to discover my rear wheel bearings are shot. Mud and dirty water (gee I can't begin to imagine how that happened ) migrated past the rear axle seal into the bearing destroying both. The PS was worse but both rear axle seals and bearings were bad.

To top that off the pinion bearing was shot too; more about this below. Scott, owner of New Mexico Clutch and Brake who also specializes in diff repair and setup told me even if the diff/axle housing is vented, like mine, when a hot diff comes into contact with cold water it will still suck water past the axle seals. I thought, originally, the purpose of active venting was to prevent this from happening.

American Toyota is doing the work (sans 3rd set-up). Special thanks to CDan and Beno for helping kick this to the "front of the pile". Even with that it will be 5-days tomorrow atop the lift.

I've had a vibration, growl and general driveline noises ever since getting the 4.88's installed. I had taken the LC to Sacramento last summer and left it with the diff shop for about 4-days to hopefully get to the bottom of it. But even though the diff shop owner heard and felt the growl and vibe he deemed it "normal". Maybe my current capital infusion into Albuquerque's economy getting all the repairs made is related...or not: But a striking coincidence just the same.

So I guess I can't complain about getting 150K miles...well actually 80K miles put on by me...on the rear bearings. I had replaced the axle seals when I did the 4.88 conversion a little less than 3-years ago.

So just so the rest of you know these SF bearings and seals aren't perfect nor are they "maintenance free". And unlike the FF of 80 and other LC series you can't inspect them nor maintain them.

I, therefore, think to try to uphold the best reliability for the typical off-road conditions I drive will be seriously considering replacing these axle seals and bearings on a 12-18 month frequency. Its either that or installing a custom FF rear axle...and I don't think that's going to happen!



So maybe something to add to FAQ as a reminder.

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

service

I certainly would not rule out a vehicle just because the rear wheel bearings are not full floater servicable type. They are still of much better design than 95% of vehicles out there and also last very long. All parts are subject to failure when water is involved. The only slight advantage a fullfloat serviceable type axle bearing would have in a water contamination situation would be that you could clean and repack. Still its a fair amount of work, so if your doing this at 100k miles, than it would still be best to replace them.

Really sorry to hear this. I have been researching the hundy as a possibility for the wife and future expedition rig. One of the reasons would be the ability to self service after learning on an 80. Yes, I know their are pros and cons of each. It does appear that wrenching on a 100 is a bit more involved though. As much as everyone here loves the 100, I feel the same for my 80 and hopefully, I am the last owner she'll ever have.

Buck

 

[matt60/80]

Just for grins and giggles how difficult would it be to source a FF axle from overseas and install in on a hundy? I do know that they are different widths but could that be overcome with spacers?

 

[farinvail]

Bummer, good luck. Safe travels.

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

axles

Much more difficult and costly then replacing wheel bearings once every 150k miles

Just for grins and giggles how difficult would it be to source a FF axle from overseas and install in on a hundy? I do know that they are different widths but could that be overcome with spacers?

 

[Buckru]

I certainly would not rule out a vehicle just because the rear wheel bearings are not full floater servicable type. They are still of much better design than 95% of vehicles out there and also last very long. All parts are subject to failure when water is involved. The only slight advantage a fullfloat serviceable type axle bearing would have in a water contamination situation would be that you could clean and repack. Still its a fair amount of work, so if your doing this at 100k miles, than it would still be best to replace them.

Not ruling them out by any means, a cruiser is legendary regardless of the model. The ability to turn a wrench on it is what makes it financially feasible for my justification of ownership. No doubt a mini van would be a better option for us currently. Then again, a mini van aint no cruiser .

Buck

 

[Skidoo]

I don't like those rear seals, had a Sac diff shop replace rear bearings and it took several go rounds to get that seal to stay put. When you torque the rear bearing plate, the axle slides out a little and if the phase of the moon isn't right it will pull that seal out of the seat. Seal design is "rubber" both inside and outside not a metal outside like front. So does not get the same kind of "bite". Had the axle assembly pressed together and apart several times. I got tired of it and put that seal in with 3M Weather-strip adhesive, good stuff.

 

[Tom B]

I, therefore, think to try to uphold the best reliability for the typical off-road conditions I drive will be seriously considering replacing these axle seals and bearings on a 12-18 month frequency. Its either that or installing a custom FF rear axle...and I don't think that's going to happen!


So maybe something to add to FAQ as a reminder.

Dan, if you don't mind sharing, what was the total damage ($$$) for this service.

Somewhat clueless question. I have repacked full floater's before, but I think I recall someone saying that on semi-floaters the bearing lubrication comes from the diff fluild, or is it one of those sealed for early death/life type hubs? If it is the former, shouldn't more frequent diff fluid replacement extend the life of the bearings even in the presence deteriorating seals?

 

[NMuzj100]

A 4Runner just became my next vehicle. Wife and I just talked about this last night, but we assumed I can maintain the LC myself which is a value.

Not sure I'd change my mind based on spresso's report. His is the only case to come across the board yet and he wheels his truck harder than average.

 

[Skidoo]

There are two seals per side. One inside of bearing and ABS sensor that prevent diff oil from reaching them. The other is outside of bearing that prevents junk and water from reaching bearing. Bearing is pre greased but not a sealed unit, has split inner race.
Inner seal is metal cup design, outer seal has "rubber" design both for axle sealing and retention surfaces. Whereas there is no way to pull metal cup seal out by hand the rubber seal can be.
I would guess the failure mode is seal coming loose, by time it is discovered seal is so chewed up, hard to tell what happened. So not sure 12 month replacement is going to prevent field failure. That is why I have glued in the one that gave me problems staying in place. I would be a good test case as one side is glued the other is not, if I wheeled anywhere near as hard as spressomon, but I don't. I expect this issue to show up more going forward.

 

[Skidoo]

Tom B,
For me the cost of new bearings and press work was $370. I pulled axles, took them in and provided seals.