Seems Like the more I fix............

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Joined
Aug 18, 2005
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Location
Va.
.......... the more I find wrong! After purchasing this 62 recently, I've discovered many, many things wrong with it, and am still trying to get it on the road. My current headache has to do with the brake system.

Brakes Part 1: Downey rear disc brake conversion was non-operational. This problem turned out to be the calipers seized on the caliper pins and was an easy fix. I disassembled the pins and cleaned and lubed them. I also had to replace the pads, which wore out from dragging.

Brakes Part 2: (and the question?): After fixing the rear disc brakes, I noticed that the front brakes weren't doing their job either. In fact. they are so bad that I can't even lock them up on a dirt/gravel road. I pulled the front brakes apart, discovered only two pistons operating on the driver's side and one on the passenger side (only three out of eight working!), and installed reman. calipers. However, after replacing the calipers I have only noticed a nominal improvement in braking (still can't lock up the wheels).

After doing some more digging, I think I may have found the problem. It appears as if the master cylinder has been replaced, but it looks to me like a MC off a later model vehicle, potentially ABS. The current symptoms are:
-- very soft pedal on first pump, which will firm up after a couple pumps
-- Pedal travel is excessive, more than halfway to the floor, and even after pumping the brakes the vehicle still won't lock up on the gravel road.
-- When holding the brake and starting the vehicle, the pedal doesn't seem to fade.

Does this in fact sound like a MC problem? Being an altered vehicle I don't know what problems to look for as a result of the disc brake conversion. I also don't want to continue to throw money at the problem and not see any results.

I've already chased and repaired several electrical problems (lights, horns, etc.) and still have to tackle a check engine light on, and a 4WD light that won't turn off. I was initially excited about getting back into cruisers, but I'm starting to have second thoughts on whether I, versus the vehicle, was the one that got taken for a ride!
 
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Remorseful:

It's mystery of the Landcruiser... how you can fix everthing and still not be done.

Sorry I can't help with the brakes.

Mike
 
My uncle's old suburban had that problem with the brakes, although it wasn't a problem, it's how it worked. I'd say set the MC back to stock LC. Is the fluid full? Brake proportional valve? Do LC's have one?

:beer:
 
Sounds to me like you still have air in your system. You just have to get any air out.
Stick with it as that doesn't seem to be too many problems, just mainly one that needs to be properly sorted. Get one thing fixed properly, THEN move on to the next.
The brakes on my HJ61 aren't aggressive. I'm not sure how well they would lock up on gravel, because I don't particularly want them to. They pull the vehicle up quite well, just the same.
I recently did some work to my front diff and in the process found that the caliper rubber seals had perished. When I replaced them I found that the cylinders were a bit 'gummed up', so cleaned that out. I also found that the pistons had pitted corrosion in them (but fortunately didn't leak). I reused them but have since found that replacements are about $20 ea, so not to bad. The work that I did improved the brakes a small but noticable amount.
I'm not sure that I like the idea of non genuine brakes on the rear if it makes things more difficult to service. You front callipers shuld be fine since they have been replaced. Make sure that all air is out of the system, then check boost, MC, etc. You'll sort it out!! :)
 
Regardful said:
-- very soft pedal on first pump, which will firm up after a couple pumps
-- Pedal travel is excessive, more than halfway to the floor, and even after pumping the brakes the vehicle still won't lock up on the gravel road.
-- When holding the brake and starting the vehicle, the pedal doesn't seem to fade.

Does this in fact sound like a MC problem?

Nope, it sounds like an air in the system problem. Try bleeding them again, starting with the wheel furthest from the MC and working closer. Brakes should work much better once you get all the air out.
 
I know I might get blasted for this, but my stock drum brakes seem to work really well. When I first bought my FJ60, I really wanted to do the disc conversion, but decided to wait, now I don't think I will do them. Not sure if going back to stock is an option for you, but is what I would suggest. There is pro's and con's for each system.
 
Regardful said:
.......... After doing some more digging, I think I may have found the problem. It appears as if the master cylinder has been replaced, but it looks to me like a MC off a later model vehicle, potentially ABS. The current symptoms are:
-- very soft pedal on first pump, which will firm up after a couple pumps
-- Pedal travel is excessive, more than halfway to the floor, and even after pumping the brakes the vehicle still won't lock up on the gravel road.
-- When holding the brake and starting the vehicle, the pedal doesn't seem to fade.
QUOTE]

You need a different MC to run the rear discs so try and find out what MC you got.
Im guessing its a 80 series or mini truck or something.
Anyway the symptoms suggest it has air or is worn out.

The pedal not dropping when you start is a symptom of a bad brake booster or a bad connection

Having 2 separate problems in your brakes is confusing
 
do toyotas have a bleed pattern? that might be the problem. call a dealer and ask them if/what the bleed sequence is. i am new to landcruisers so im not sure yet.
 
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I have always been taught that you bleed the caliper starting with the furthest away from the MC and work your way around the truck to the one that is closest to the MC. That is how I did my FJ60 and no issues.
 
roscoFJ73 said:
Regardful said:
.......... After doing some more digging, I think I may have found the problem. It appears as if the master cylinder has been replaced, but it looks to me like a MC off a later model vehicle, potentially ABS. The current symptoms are:
-- very soft pedal on first pump, which will firm up after a couple pumps
-- Pedal travel is excessive, more than halfway to the floor, and even after pumping the brakes the vehicle still won't lock up on the gravel road.
-- When holding the brake and starting the vehicle, the pedal doesn't seem to fade.
QUOTE]

You need a different MC to run the rear discs so try and find out what MC you got.
Im guessing its a 80 series or mini truck or something.
Anyway the symptoms suggest it has air or is worn out.

The pedal not dropping when you start is a symptom of a bad brake booster or a bad connection

Having 2 separate problems in your brakes is confusing

OK, here is what I found. The MC on the truck now is ABS MC, from a '95 80 series. Is this a problem?

After reading thru many, many MC posts, I narrowed recommendations to three primary choices for MC conversions:

-- 94/95 80 series --I'm guessing non-ABS, but not sure?
-- 94 T100 4wd 1 ton
-- 88+ Toyota 4wd V6 pickup

Based on what I have read, prices, and availability I'm inclined to go with a MC from a '90 V6 4wd pickup. After reading an article on 4x4wire http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/brakemastercylinder/ I settled on the '90 because it looked like the correct mount, was cheaper, and showed a 1 inch bore. The '88 on the other hand was a different part number, more expensive, and (according to the parts guys) showed a 15/16 bore. What do you guys think? Is the '90 MC a good choice?
 
Regardful said:
roscoFJ73 said:
OK, here is what I found. The MC on the truck now is ABS MC, from a '95 80 series. Is this a problem?

After reading thru many, many MC posts, I narrowed recommendations to three primary choices for MC conversions:

-- 94/95 80 series --I'm guessing non-ABS, but not sure?
-- 94 T100 4wd 1 ton
-- 88+ Toyota 4wd V6 pickup

Based on what I have read, prices, and availability I'm inclined to go with a MC from a '90 V6 4wd pickup. After reading an article on 4x4wire http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/brakemastercylinder/ I settled on the '90 because it looked like the correct mount, was cheaper, and showed a 1 inch bore. The '88 on the other hand was a different part number, more expensive, and (according to the parts guys) showed a 15/16 bore. What do you guys think? Is the '90 MC a good choice?

I would have thought the 80 series would have been ok but I hear of lots of owners using the mini trucks. Which one is best ,I dont know.

The ABS shouldnt be a problem,some owners disconnect it all together for extended dirt road driving.

Have you checked the booster and connections?
 
As far as your 4WD light staying on - probably means that the 2WD vacuum solenoid is bad. 62's have 2 vacuum solenoids to switch from 2WD to 4WD and vica versa. They're located on the firwall just to the passenger side of midline - one's brown the other blue (forget which one's which). They are expensive to replace - like $300 from a dealer. One quick and dirty solution is manually swap the vacuum lines. Check tech for a solution using commercial solenoids (MAC by brand). Easy fix once you know what's going on.

Harry
 
brett76:
do toyotas have a bleed pattern? that might be the problem. call a dealer and ask them if/what the bleed sequence is. i am new to landcruisers so im not sure yet.

Yeah, they do have a bleed pattern, its rr, rl, fr, fl. Just bled mine properly for the first time, it didn't seem to make that much of a difference.
Hildy
 
Hum...that isn't the way I bleed mine. Unless something is different between 60's and 62's and years manufactured, I did this order, right rear, left rear, left front and then right front (furthest to closest to MC) maybe I did mine wrong hehe.
 
I would think that from all 4 calipers dragging for the length of time that you describe, that you've prolly got a good deal of polish on your rotors and pads. I think before I did any more fussing with the hydraulics, I'd invest a few $$ in having the rotors turned and get some fresh pads on there!

And I agree with Fourrunner. Drums are more of a nuisance, but they really do stop better. ;p
 
65swb45 said:
I would think that from all 4 calipers dragging for the length of time that you describe, that you've prolly got a good deal of polish on your rotors and pads. I think before I did any more fussing with the hydraulics, I'd invest a few $$ in having the rotors turned and get some fresh pads on there!

And I agree with Fourrunner. Drums are more of a nuisance, but they really do stop better. ;p


Agreed! I've already replaced the calipers and pads up front, turned the rear rotors, and replaced the rear pads. The truck stops a little better but still has way to much pedal travel and fade. I have bleed the system twice, with the same results.

I picked up a mini-truck MC today that will take the place of the '95 80 series ABS MC, which the PO installed. I'm also going to remove the adjustable proportion valve that the PO installed. Hopefully this will do the trick!
 
The proper bleed pattern for a FJ62 is:

DS rear, PS rear, LSPV, DS front, PS front

Be sure too bleed the LSPV properly, some people have had difficulty with that. The stock brake system shouldn't be soft. FWIW, I have a totally stock system with 31s on mine and can easily lock the wheels on dry pavement.

Bill
 
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