Sean needs Help

[sjpitts]

To make a long story short, Sean paid 3k+ to Vern at Toy Specialities to redo his head, replace his head gasket, and rebuild his carb.

After having done this, it runs hot and failed emissions. I am begining to think that they have done something seriously wrong. Or maybe just half assed.

I know Vern has a good rep. In fact, I had Vern do a bunch of work on my Sequoia, and I was real happy with what he did. But something is really wrong here.

Here is Sean's new thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/216221-paid-3k-engine-work-still-runs-bad.html

Jared

 

[Tools R Us]

Doesn't sound good.

The first thing that I would check for is for a vacuum leak, this could account for the running hot and emissions failure. Hose the intake and all of the vacuum lines with carb cleaner or my favorite is propane, with the motor idling, look for an RPM rise.

My second check would be a valve adjustment/compression test. Then the basic settings, timing, are the vacuum lines properly routed, etc. How does it run, good power, missing, etc? What are the emissions numbers and what failed?

Replacing the jets? If it's mains that we are talking about, they are hunks of brass, they don't just "go bad"! Most of the time they are messed up by someone drilling them, etc?

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! Sounds like he should come down to the meeting this week, and we can have a "formal" tech discussion on his problems. With all of out accumulated knowledge and experience we just may be able to help. John

 

[sjpitts]

Doesn't sound good.

The first thing that I would check for is for a vacuum leak, this could account for the running hot and emissions failure. Hose the intake and all of the vacuum lines with carb cleaner or my favorite is propane, with the motor idling, look for an RPM rise.

My second check would be a valve adjustment/compression test. Then the basic settings, timing, are the vacuum lines properly routed, etc. How does it run, good power, missing, etc? What are the emissions numbers and what failed?

Replacing the jets? If it's mains that we are talking about, they are hunks of brass, they don't just "go bad"! Most of the time they are messed up by someone drilling them, etc?

I think you are right on. As I said in the other thread-- a Vacuum/Intake leak == running rich== running hot. That makes sense-- right?

And this would explain what happened. As Sean said, when he first picked up the 60 after the headgasket/carb rebuild, he got 100 yards and stalled at the first light he came to. Basically, it wouldn't idle. When he took it back they fiddled with it and made it run. They said there was something clogged. But then after he failed emissions and took it back, a different mechanic said "you idle screw is all the way out"-- probably not knowing that it was them who screwed it all it in the first place.

My guess is there is a vacuum leak they can't find. Or maybe it is one they can't easily fix.

Could a screw up head make an intake leak/vacuum leak??

Sean got a little mad at me for posting this-- he didn't want to name Vern. And I guess I understand, since Vern has a real good rep, and we shouldn't sulley it without real proof. And as I said, he did good work on my Seq. And his guy is currently trying to fix it.

But when I hear what happened, and how they tried to fix it with the idle screw, and how they are now wanting to fix it with new jets, I just can't help but think that something is seriously wrong.

Jared

 

[-Spike-]

Vern does have a good rep here, but you get and keep a good rep by taking care of the customers. If he does what needs to be done, he keeps his good rep. If he can't satisfy the customer within reasonable expectations, his rep gets tarnished. I'll bet he'll make this good, in time. I'd also doubt the jets, but I'm not the one under the hood. Sounds like a vacuum leak from my office, though.

-Spike

 

[msahr]

First of all you can spend a ton of money on rebuilding a carb... and it won't matter a whit if the carb is bad and the rebuilder you use doesn't tell you. Just takes your money (over $550) and then you find out the throttle body for the carb is bad, and same rebuilder graciously sells you a used throttle body for only another $150... and it still won't run.

This wasn't Vern. Supposed to be a guru for Aisin carbs.

Vern uses only Toyota parts when he can. But a lot of our trucks are 30 plus years old and some of the parts aren't available, period.

I think Vern will treat you right on this. Just talk to him and / or Cookie not one of the techs. They don't own the place and Vern does. He doesn't have a great rep with the local Toyota community for nothing.

 

[sjpitts]

FYI:

I was at Vern's shop today. I saw he had a beige 40 there getting a TBI fuel injection system-- the 40 had a IH8MUD.COM sticker. Anybody know the owner? It looked real nice. It made me want to tell Sean he should spend another 3k and get the EFI-- and he should do it now, before he gets married and has to clear such purchases with his wife.

Jared

 

[msahr]

Howdy. That's mine...

Thanks for the compliments. Can't wait to drive it again someday...

The TBI system is WAY less than $3000. Got the whole kit, including ECU and Throttle Body. Check Turbo City.

 

[sjpitts]

I don't know if any of you are following Sean's thread in the 60 section, but today Vern called Sean and told him he gives up. He can't make it pass emissions. Vern is going to put back the carb to stock configuration and give it back to him.

I am not sure what Sean is going to do next. My guess is that we will take it to get it tested again and see how far from passing it still is.

Also unresolved is why it still runs hot.

Jared

 

[puulboy]

This may sound bizarre but, . Have you coonsidered installing a high flow cat converter to make it pass emmisions? You could even flange it and remove it if it causes problems afterwards. I know they are under a 100 bucks
I know that doesnt solve the heat issue but it may be an answer for the emmisions .

 

[sjpitts]

This may sound bizarre but, . Have you coonsidered installing a high flow cat converter to make it pass emmisions? You could even flange it and remove it if it causes problems afterwards. I know they are under a 100 bucks
I know that doesnt solve the heat issue but it may be an answer for the emmisions .

The CAT is pretty new. Just a couple of years. I am not sure exactly how old, but Sean could tell you.

Jared

 

[msahr]

Without going into all the gory details I will have a 0 miles DUI (carb version) distributor available for a very fair price if this might help. Just throwing that out there.

 

[inkpot]

I don't know if any of you are following Sean's thread in the 60 section, but today Vern called Sean and told him he gives up. He can't make it pass emissions. Vern is going to put back the carb to stock configuration and give it back to him.

I am not sure what Sean is going to do next. My guess is that we will take it to get it tested again and see how far from passing it still is.

Also unresolved is why it still runs hot.

Jared

Howdy! If Vern is going to put it back to stock, then it will need to be tested again to find out where it is setting at now. If it is only 5 points off on CO only, then it is pretty darn close to passing. Is it failing at idle or under load? That makes a big difference on where to look for the problems. If it is idle, then usually it is just an adjustment on the idle screw. I have a CO meter, and I have done this a lot of times over the years on my Piggy, and on my 3 kids clunkers that they had for first cars. It could have a bent, corroded or worn needle, or the seat in the carb body could be damaged. I have seen both. If it fails under load, then it could be float level, power valve problems, vapor can problems. I have had carbs that would not lean out the idle readings unless I set the idle speed about 150 rpm higher than spec. Hey, it passed smog that way. I'd be glad to check it out with my CO meter to see if we can get it passed.

One other option is a "smog" shop that sits right next door to the testing station. They make them pass all day long. I have used the one in my neighborhood once, and that was on a fuel injected Suburban that just would not quite pass. I gave up after about 5 or 6 tries, and they popped it thru for a couple of hundred $$. And it ran fine after that. John

 

[sj]

I got my 60 back from Vern yesterday, I replied to my other thread. We got into a little heated debate. He said it will never pass emissions again that even a new carb won't help it. What the problem is he dosen't know. He said they are old vehicals and that the government wants them off the road. I asked about a refund and he got mad saying, he makes them run properly. According to Vern running properly doesn't mean it will pass emisions. I understand this a little bit, but in my mind if a car is running properly it runs at toyota specs and should pass emissions. He said no. When I mentioned taking it to someone else he got mad and walked out, as he was leaving he said he has been working on toyotas since 72 and named all these places he went to school.

I am going to send my carb to Jim C and see what he says. I may try and get a compression test done first and see what that tells me.

The joy!

 

[Tools R Us]

... He said it will never pass emissions again ...

BS.

What the problem is he dosen't know.

No kidding? ... sorry, delete smart a## comment.

He said they are old vehicals and that the government wants them off the road. ...

True, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I am going to send my carb to Jim C and see what he says. I may try and get a compression test done first and see what that tells me.

The joy!

I would hold off on the carb, it may well be the problem, but at this point, who knows what the problem is, tossing more $$ at random components probably isn't going to help? In cases like this, where you want the truck done, have spent a load of $$$ and the mechanic cant figure it out. It's easy for the mechanic to get frustrated and fixate on one component, when the problem maybe simple and he is missing it. In cases like this I have found that it's best to step away for a while and come back to it with a clear head or have another tech look at it.

At this point nobody outside of Vern's knows exactly what has been done to the truck, so the best place to start is with the basics. Confirm all stock settings, compression, timing, running temp, intake vacuum, emission readings, etc, are in spec or if not should point to the problem. I would like to have a look at it, but unfortunately have zero time till after Moab.

 

[-Spike-]

Vern's attitude sucks. It has to pass the emissions standards set for it when it was manufactured. If it's running corectly, it will pass those standards. Somewhere, in all the work done to that truck, something is wrong. Sounds like Vern doesn't want to admit that it might be something to do with the work he did on the head, or some other component. I'd push for him to either fix it or refund all of the money spent on the vehicle, including the head. Preferrably fix it. Sucks for him, but you shouldn't have to pay some other mechanic to tear it all down again.

-Spike

 

[sj]

At this point nobody outside of Vern's knows exactly what has been done to the truck, so the best place to start is with the basics. Confirm all stock settings, compression, timing, running temp, intake vacuum, emission readings, etc, are in spec or if not should point to the problem. I would like to have a look at it, but unfortunately have zero time till after Moab.

I agree, I am going to get a compression test done, I wll see about timing. I have concern about the running temp it has been running hotter since I had the work done.

Sean

 

[sjpitts]

Don't forget, it was actually passing emissions until Sean took it to Vern.

Sean took it to Vern because it was getting hot. Vern said it had a blown head gasket but was otherwise a good engine. Sean paid 3k+ to get the head reworked and a carb rebuilt. I can't even remember why Sean had the carb rebuilt-- did you have a specific reason? Or was it just because it had 195K miles?

Either way, it has to be that something in the head job or the carb rebuild screwed up the emissions.

And by the way, after Vern put it back together it is reading 250 on CO. That is twice what it was when Sean took it back to Vern and 10 TIMES the legal limit. There is clearly something very wrong here.

Jared

/and it still gets hot.

 

[Tools R Us]

There is another angle to possibly recover some $. When was your first emission test failure? The state has a program that will refund some of the $$ spent to make it pass, if over a certain $$ value. Stop in at a test station or maybe link> ServiceArizona has more info?

 

[sj]

Vern's attitude sucks. It has to pass the emissions standards set for it when it was manufactured. If it's running corectly, it will pass those standards. Somewhere, in all the work done to that truck, something is wrong. Sounds like Vern doesn't want to admit that it might be something to do with the work he did on the head, or some other component. I'd push for him to either fix it or refund all of the money spent on the vehicle, including the head. Preferrably fix it. Sucks for him, but you shouldn't have to pay some other mechanic to tear it all down again.

-Spike

I think I am done with him working on it. They have told me so many things that don't make sense. Vern rebuilt the carb. I couldn't go 200 yards without my car stalling. It would not idle. I drove back to his shop where Vern worked on it for about 15 minutes and then let me drive away. Fast forward, when I brought it back, Vern was out of town and another tech said the idle screw was all the way out. So Verns fix to stop it from stalling was to screw out the idle screw.

Anyways the new tech found an intake leak at the same time as the idle screw problem. So does this mean that I was stalling because there was an intake leak and Verns fix was the idle screw.


Sean