Rock Warrior 35’s or True 34”

[4wheelgreg]

Hey guys
I’m still trying to figure out my best tire wheel combination for my build , 2019 Land cruiser , doing a overlander , I do the bubba .
I’m doing a TJM T13 bumper / Warn 10k winch , dual batteries skid plates . I am working with Ben from Filthy doing 3.0 all the way around with front 800lb coils .
I was contemplating Tundra long arm , but may just keep the lift to a minimum 2.5 and a Diff drop if needed .
I do like the RW 50mm keeps them tucked in a bit more than a 25mm aftermarket wheel.
Is anyone running a 35-12.5 or a true 34 tire , I should have plenty of clearance up front with the TJM maybe arm relocate .
I don’t mind trimming my fender body mount , thats a easy job .
Any one running 35’s with Rock Warrior wheels ? And clearance issues with UCA , I’ll be running SPC just wondering how close with out front wheel spacers ?

 

[afgman786]

I don't think you'll be able to fit a 12.5 wide on RW without spacers. After getting my lift and SPC installed, I had a finger width between the UCA and tire. I'm running 285 wide

 

[TeCKis300]

Agreed with @afgman786. In those larger tire sizes, offset is critical and even with an ideal offset will require other things to make clearance against the KDSS bar work. +50 RW offset wheels won't work. You'll need something more in the 25 offset range and the KDSS bar will still be an issue.

Tundra arms is definitely an option to make this work, and using the RW wheels.

@mcgaskins build thread a good guide.

Builds - mcgaskins' 2016 build thread - Ruby

As some of you may know, I had a 2014 that was built in the past, but I really liked the 2016 refresh and wanted to give the 8 speed a try to see if it worked better off road. Some pics of the 14: I found a decent deal on a 2016 in brandywine/terra in Minnesota and had it shipped to...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[ga12r1]

If you are going to do new Kings why not do a tundra conversion? I know you say you were thinking about it so why not? That would be the best solution IMO.

 

[4wheelgreg]

I’m tore between between doing the Swap or just using the Stock LC setup with Kings . My 2019 has 1000 miles on its , I’m using it for more overlanding , I’m in PA/NJ area so I have sand and Slag / Coal terrain . No hard core climbing or crawling , more deep sand and mud in the NJ pines .
This is my 3rd 200 , the last LC was allways buried in sand getting pulled out .
My ideal build would be a Bubba wide tire build 34” tires could do the 35’s knowing I would have to re-gear down the road .
I can going basically any direction with my build right now , only part I have is the TJM bumper and winch .
after all the research I know the Tundra swap is the best to run Rock warriors for the back spacing .
Just researching other options using the Stock LC platform and wheel options .
After all my research the Tundra swap is a great way to get the extra 1.75 wider arms but gives you no additional lift just ability to run a 34” with the RW wheels and less CV angle .
The total lift comes from your Shock / Spring configuration .
I’m doings kings either way I go Tundra and LC strut are basically the same King with the exception of hose length and possible valving .
I’m not apposed to doing the swap , but if I can do 34”s with the stock CV setup and LC which do seem to be a beefier arm than the Tundra , I know I can go Chaos or other aftermarket and after all the readings the Tundra swap is pretty solid conversion .

 

[afgman786]

There are a couple posts I've seen with folks running a true 34". That wouldn't be a problem with stock LC arms and CVs. But from what I remember they were running ICON rims which are +25mm offset and the tires are 34x10.5 I think..
Do you not consider a 285/75/17 good enough as a 34? Quite a few running that size with LC front end, but again running either spacers or around the +25mm offset.

or you could try the 275/80/17 MTR....

 

[Whiskerz]

You might go with a more aggressive tire first. Mud loads up most of the all terrains.

 

[linuxgod]

There are a couple posts I've seen with folks running a true 34". That wouldn't be a problem with stock LC arms and CVs. But from what I remember they were running ICON rims which are +25mm offset and the tires are 34x10.5 I think..
Do you not consider a 285/75/17 good enough as a 34? Quite a few running that size with LC front end, but again running either spacers or around the +25mm offset.

or you could try the 275/80/17 MTR....

I'm one of the above on 34s with Icons. 34s should work on RWs too. I think a few folks have done it. You may or may not need a spacer or different UCA to clear the UCA, but otherwise you'll get less wheel well rub with the RWs higher offset.

Nitto stamps 34" on their 285/75R17, FWIW.

 

[4wheelgreg]

A lot of dealers are not listing RW wheels saying discontinued . I’m not apposed to doing a front differential drop and keeping the stock LC arms and shafts .
I did see a few post with diff drops lowering the CV angle dramatically . Wondering the angle compared to running Tundra long arm angle vs CV angles diff drop with stock LC arms .
For my build using 25mm offset 9x18 would give me the ability to run the wider 34” tire which for my driving and terrain bubba is better .
I don’t mind doing a front body mount chop I have a fabrication shop , also may consider a 1/2 to 1” body lift .
I’m more overland hard packed coal / slag and sand than rock and hill climbing .

 

[linuxgod]

A DD will change your CV angles which reduces their wear but really won't do anything else for you in terms of tire fitment.

Most folks will say you don't need a DD. I'd tend to agree, though after having a CV boot tear at one of the seams I ended up putting one in. The ebay kits are about $70.

You don't need to body mount chop on 34s. You also don't need to chop on 35s if your alignment is set up right. 37s are a different story

 

[4wheelgreg]

I’m looking at 305/70R18 maybe on a Method 305 25mm offset , that 305 tire is a 34.8 just under a 35 tire , depending on manufacture , I think Toyo or Nitto is pretty right on .
Few guys have reported KDDS needs relocation bracket needed , I should not have a problem up front going with TJM T13 should be plenty room up front .
Going with Kings all the way around , not sure 3.0 or 2.5 , 800lb spring will be a must have with all the weight .
Any one running a 305 , I have seen the step down is a 305/60r18 is a better fit but drops to a 33.4 tire .
Any one running 305’s 18” on 25mm offset ?

 

[linuxgod]

I’m looking at 305/70R18 maybe on a Method 305 25mm offset , that 305 tire is a 34.8 just under a 35 tire , depending on manufacture , I think Toyo or Nitto is pretty right on .
Few guys have reported KDDS needs relocation bracket needed , I should not have a problem up front going with TJM T13 should be plenty room up front .
Going with Kings all the way around , not sure 3.0 or 2.5 , 800lb spring will be a must have with all the weight .
Any one running a 305 , I have seen the step down is a 305/60r18 is a better fit but drops to a 33.4 tire .
Any one running 305’s 18” on 25mm offset ?

Trying to find someone with 305 on 18s doesn't really matter. What matters is total diameter and section width. 305mm is a 12" wide tire. The +25 offset wheels will help clear the UCA as that is almost an inch wider than stock.

As you said 305/70R18 is a 34.8" diameter tire. You will need KDSS relo for anything taller than 34". Whether you're 34.4 or 34.8 or 35 won't matter. Even on 34" you will likely rub the KDSS bar slightly at full right steering lock, but many of us just live with that. anything 34+ you'll tear up the tire lugs on the KDSS arm though.

Your bumper will give you plenty of clearance in the wheel well up front. You'll still need to do work to fit the tire in the back part of the front wheel well.

Tire weight is unsprung. Your coil weights are not relevant to the tire selection and vice-versa. (Not saying it's a bad choice, I just don't have enough info on your build).

 

[4wheelgreg]

I would think the coil spring rate would be relevant to handle the weight of the vehicle ride height , TJM T13 , warn winch , extra battery , plus skid plates . I’m going to have to determine where the truck sits and wheel travel .
I figure setting the kings up for around 2.5 to 3 lift for a 34 . As you said is I don’t want to relocate keep it under 34 so the 305/60r18 would be around 33.5 and might be a good consideration .
I do need the wider tire just because I am in sand for the bigger foot print .

 

[linuxgod]

I would think the coil spring rate would be relevant to handle the weight of the vehicle ride height , TJM T13 , warn winch , extra battery , plus skid plates . I’m going to have to determine where the truck sits and wheel travel .
I figure setting the kings up for around 2.5 to 3 lift for a 34 . As you said is I don’t want to relocate keep it under 34 so the 305/60r18 would be around 33.5 and might be a good consideration .
I do need the wider tire just because I am in sand for the bigger foot print .

Coil spring rate is relevant to everything you just noted. It's not relevant to front tire clearance though.

Note that when you air down your tire will get much wider front-to-back than side-to-side. So a taller tire aired way down may have more surface area than a wider tire. Granted all things equal wider will help you ride up on sand.

 

[afgman786]

Trying to find someone with 305 on 18s doesn't really matter. What matters is total diameter and section width. 305mm is a 12" wide tire. The +25 offset wheels will help clear the UCA as that is almost an inch wider than stock.

As you said 305/70R18 is a 34.8" diameter tire. You will need KDSS relo for anything taller than 34". Whether you're 34.4 or 34.8 or 35 won't matter. Even on 34" you will likely rub the KDSS bar slightly at full right steering lock, but many of us just live with that. anything 34+ you'll tear up the tire lugs on the KDSS arm though.

Your bumper will give you plenty of clearance in the wheel well up front. You'll still need to do work to fit the tire in the back part of the front wheel well.

Tire weight is unsprung. Your coil weights are not relevant to the tire selection and vice-versa. (Not saying it's a bad choice, I just don't have enough info on your build).

So the KDSS issue is mostly with the height of a tire? For some reason I took everyone that had posted about issues as the width of the tire cause more of an issue with KDSS over height.

Here I was thinking a 275/80/17 wouldn't have issues with KDSS since its a skinny 34.6

 

[linuxgod]

So the KDSS issue is mostly with the height of a tire? For some reason I took everyone that had posted about issues as the width of the tire cause more of an issue with KDSS over height.

Here I was thinking a 275/80/17 wouldn't have issues with KDSS since its a skinny 34.6

Both. The arm is curved, so for shorter tires you can have interference on the inside of the arm, but taller tires will have interference on the leading edge.

This is a recent pic form @Willy beamin. He has the KDSS relo bracket installed with 35s. This pic is shooting form the ground upwards, so the left side of the bar is closest to the engine while what you see at the top is the section of the KDSS arm which is closest to the bumper. 34s will rub on that spot on the left at full left lock (which only happens at really slow speeds) but 35s will start to contact the arm itself which could be really bad for your tires (or vehicle control). You'd likely be fine driving straight but making a hard left turn at speed might make for a bad day.

 

[4wheelgreg]

How far does the relocation bracket push the KDDS forward ? is this the fix for tall 34 or 35 . I'm still up figuring which wheel , running the RW wheels in conjunction with 1.25 spacer does that push the wheel farther away for less contact compared to a 25mm offset at all ?

 

[linuxgod]

How far does the relocation bracket push the KDDS forward ? is this the fix for tall 34 or 35 . I'm still up figuring which wheel , running the RW wheels in conjunction with 1.25 spacer does that push the wheel farther away for less contact compared to a 25mm offset at all ?

1"

200 Series KDSS Relocation Plates

Relocate the KDSS bar and get larger tire clearance on your 200 Cruiser. These plates allow for a 1" clearance adjustment on the bar. Made from CNC milled 6061 aluminum Kit comes with: Pair of aluminum relocation plates (8) Flanged JIS Grade 10.9 bolts

www.trail-tailor.com

The KDSS relo is part of the fix for ~35" tires. You still need an alignment which pushes your caster to the higher end of the spec (>3 degrees). To achieve that you may need an aftermarket/adjustable UCA. You also still need to do all the 34" changes such as mud flap removal, wheel well liner trimming or shaping, etc.

Factory wheels are +60mm. RWs are +50mm. 25.4mm = 1" so a +50mm RW + a 1" spacer is a 24.6mm offset, roughly equivalent to a +25mm offset wheel like the Icon. A 1.25" spacer (31.75mm) and RW (50mm) would put you at the equivalent of an +18mm offset wheel. Fun fact, a taller tire actually warrants a lower scrub radius, which is why the 17" RWs with 33" tires are +50 instead of the factory +60 offset on ~31" tires. You can do the calculation here, but if you trust that the RW on 33s (which Toyota specs) is correct then the "perfect" scrub radius for a 35" tire with our suspension geometry is apparently +37 or +38.

Rim & Tire Size Calculator. Custom Offsets

Tire Tech Information - The Wheel Fitment, Tyre Stretch, Rolling Radius and Speedometer Error Calculator. Play with specs, try different settings, compare results

www.wheel-size.com

I've not tried to run a 35" tire with the stock bumper but I suspect it's doable only if you're willing to take a dremel or box cutter to some of the bumper plastic in addition to all the wheel well trimming required. Wont' apply to you with a TJM though

 

[grinchy]

I don't have KDSS so I can't speak to that fitment, but the front wheel liner I just pinned 1" forward and it isn't an issue for 'skinny' 35s. I run roughly 3/4" lift at front and do rub under heavy compression on the TOP of the wheel liner a tiny bit.

 

[4wheelgreg]

I’m waiting on the TJM Bumper , its ordered . Ben from Filthy called me back , I have spoke with him , he’s a wealth of knowledge.
I have not narrowed down any thing yet , Its crazy and driving me crazy on all the tire wheel combinations . Just reading everything on here what guys have done .
I have run aftermarket wheels in the past , I have a problem with putting Chinese wheels on my Japanese truck .
I am now looking at the RW wheels , new sticker shock price from my local dealer is 500 each . Then still have to buy the spacers .
With the TJM bumper I should not have any problems up front .
Wired thing Tundra swap pushes wheels out 1.75 . Wheel Spacers say spidertrax 1.25 .
Tundra swap give you no lift , just the ability to run a better CV angle and ability to run a higher lift .
I can see the wheel being out farther not contacting the KDDS or sway , I think it would still make contact with the rear inner fended and body needing cut back and welded .
I would think the same problem exist with spacers and RW wheels but a little less since your only going 1.25 , as said puts you around 24mm back spacing .
I have to let Ben at Filthy know what direction I go .
I am running the heavy 800 lb spring either way Tundra swap or Spacers and smaller tire .
If I do go RW wheels I will only need arms , axles and ends down the road and just do spacers and 285/75r17 or 285/70R17
The Kings are basically same length