Replacing 2004 Timing Belt (1 Viewer)

[Infinity00]

Changing my timing belt on a 2004 470.
Prep: watch @OTRAMM 4.7 timing belt videos about 4 times each over the last couple years. Read FSM.

Begin and follow Otramm up until removing the timing belt. At that point the FSM varies from him and he says follow your book. To remove, the book says to move the crankshaft 50 degrees before TDC. This requires you to move it counter clockwise (for the record Otramm moves his 50 deg after TDC, which is clockwise 50 deg).

Remove the belt and the cams jump wildly. Well, that’s weird, you’d think I was rotating them to get them off tension.

Moving along, to put the new belt on the FSM says to move the cams and crankshaft back to the TDC position! What? Why didn’t I just leave it there in the first place? I moved my cams back to where the alignment was at the l position and the crank notch to the nub on the oil pump body, which should be TDC #1. No tension on the cams now and hey were all three easy to move so I don’t think I was hitting anything.

Most things I’ve read said not to worry too much as long as everything is aligned and the marks on the timing belt match the correct marks on the cams and crank after spinning everything a couple more revolutions, but why go thru these steps when I could have removed and replaced at TDC without the cams moving. Pictures below show where I’m at now with TDC alignment to put the belt back on per the FSM.

Has anyone done this and can explain why I’d have to move it 50 deg BTDC to remove it (notch of crank at 12 o’clock) with cams at their respective positions, but then move it back to TDC to put it back on (notch at 2 o’clock) and cams aligned to l Mark. I’m not totally trusting the FSM steps but I have nothing else to follow. Any comments appreciated.

 

[foreste1]

I had a guy change my timing belt recently along with tons of other work we did, but I feel like something is not right now, the truck gets worse gas mileage, and it does not have as much power on a hill (towing boat) and I swear the motor sounds different under load, also I notice about every 4-5 times I start it it takes a few seconds longer to start now. Could the timing be off? I would not think the actual belt is off a tooth or would have a big issue already, right? We have put about 2,000 miles so far. We used the Aisin timing belt, waterpump, and component kit

 

[Infinity00]

1. What else did your mechanic do?
2. mine ran a little crappy at first until the ecu recalibrated.
3. I’m attaching a link where someone’s was off by a tooth and he had poor gas mileage and loss of power. You might want to pop off the TB cover and spin everything to TDC to see if it all lines up correctly. See post #21

I feel a loss of power and fuel efficiency after Timing Belt replacement

I had a similar issue that I posted in the forums. My right cam was off by one tooth (see pics) I tore it down and did as suggested above setting the belt at the crank and left cam keeping the slack on the tensioner side. I lined up the right cam bank and now they all are dead on the timing...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[foreste1]

1. What else did your mechanic do?
2. mine ran a little crappy at first until the ecu recalibrated.
3. I’m attaching a link where someone’s was off by a tooth and he had poor gas mileage and loss of power. You might want to pop off the TB cover and spin everything to TDC to see if it all lines up correctly. See post #21

I feel a loss of power and fuel efficiency after Timing Belt replacement

I had a similar issue that I posted in the forums. My right cam was off by one tooth (see pics) I tore it down and did as suggested above setting the belt at the crank and left cam keeping the slack on the tensioner side. I lined up the right cam bank and now they all are dead on the timing...

forum.ih8mud.com

Hi, we did a lot, but the "mechanic" was a friend of family kind of thing and not a Lexus guy, and it was too late once I figured out so many issues with his work, but we did:
Bilstein 5100's front and rear
New front drive axles both sides
front stabilizer bushings
rear stabilizer links
front moog stabilizer link ends
upper and lower ball joints
front and rear pads and rotors
serpentine belt
timing belt kit and waterpump
thermostat
radiator hoses
valve cover gaskets
new rack and pinion
front sway bar bushings
new fluids, including trans, and diffs, brakes, radiator
Aligned
Should feel pretty solid and it probably does to someone who has not driven the truck for all these years as I have, just does not feel right to me now. One thing we did not do was a diff drop, not sure if need that to make it feel more stable in steering.
I will read that thread, I bet its off a tooth. Is that a big deal for me to fix myself or do I need to tear it all apart again?

 

[foreste1]

I have driven it over 2,000 miles so far and the engine idles perfect and no lights on but again feels like less power/mileage, and occasional longer start times. Not sure if timing off etc if it would idle fine or not? We did add a rack on top/ladder and I know that rack is hurting mileage too, but still all three issues together seem to point to timing I think.

 

[Infinity00]

I would just get a peek at the belt once you line everything to TDC of number 1 cylinder. I’ll take a look at mine to determine how much might have to be removed to pull the timing covers off, or loosen enough to get a flashlight in there to see. I’d ask your friend for some help. He must know something about what’s he’s doing to fix all those things. You must have a very nice rig now!

I just looked and it actually looks like you can get to most of the 10mm TB cover bolts. The drivers side you might just disconnect the cam sensor connector and at worst case pull of the skinny hose that passes in front of it, but I don’t think that will be necessary. On the passenger side, take off the plastic that goes between your throttle body and air cleaner (5 minutes or less), after removing the main center cover that hides the engine. Then I think you can get to most of the 10mm nuts and bolts on that side of the TB cover. Even if you can loosen the bottom ones and remove the easy to get to top ones I think you’ll be able to see if you are lined up right.

EDIT: let us know how it goes and what you find. Pictures of the alignment would be fun.

 

[foreste1]

I would just get a peek at the belt once you line everything to TDC of number 1 cylinder. I’ll take a look at mine to determine how much might have to be removed to pull the timing covers off, or loosen enough to get a flashlight in there to see. I’d ask your friend for some help. He must know something about what’s he’s doing to fix all those things. You must have a very nice rig now!

I just looked and it actually looks like you can get to most of the 10mm TB cover bolts. The drivers side you might just disconnect the cam sensor connector and at worst case pull of the skinny hose that passes in front of it, but I don’t think that will be necessary. On the passenger side, take off the plastic that goes between your throttle body and air cleaner (5 minutes or less), after removing the main center cover that hides the engine. Then I think you can get to most of the 10mm nuts and bolts on that side of the TB cover. Even if you can loosen the bottom ones and remove the easy to get to top ones I think you’ll be able to see if you are lined up right.

EDIT: let us know how it goes and what you find. Pictures of the alignment would be fun.

Ok thank you so much! I am planning on doing this later this week, will let you know. I cant use the "mechanic" as he would not come back to fix anything he messed up (I paid him for all his labor), is what it is...My brother and I will tackle this, thanks!!

 

[foreste1]

Hi Guys, well I took off my timing covers are sure enough the "guy" who changed my timing belt had it off by a tooth. My brother and son and I tore everything down, and redid the whole job the last 2 days, and properly aligned the new belt and torqued all bolts to factory specs, and finally finished last night and drove it. Wow, cant believe what a difference 1 tooth made! Now it has all its effortless power back, no struggling up hills, motor sounds perfect, and would imagine fuel mileage will come back as well. BIG job for sure especially when its over 100 degrees here in PHX, but so glad now I know the engine is solid and done correctly, thanks for all the help!!
Now I need to post about the Bilstein 5100's as we think that same "guy" did not compress those correctly as one side in the front the top nut is tightened down pretty far and the other side of truck, the nut is not threaded down very much. I am not sure other than removing them all together and using spring compressor to redo this job now too or if I can tighten some how on truck? I get a little bit of a float feeling in front end, and I here a band when I back up and turn left coming from the drivers front end.

 

[Infinity00]

Great job figuring all that out! The best part is now people will realize one tooth off it will still run and almost seem fine, when it isn’t. I’m impressed you all got it done in that heat. Yowzaa. It’s not a hard job but you have to take a bunch of crap off.

did you say you are hearing a bang or clunk on the front end you think is coming from that shock mount he may not have compressed enough? Don’t try to tighten it on the vehicle, it doesn’t usually work that well. It’s fairly easy and straightforward to take strut off. Then, either compress it yourself or just take it (the entire strut) to a shop and let them compress it and tighten the nut down. It’s also important to change the strut mounts on them otherwise the old ones will just clunk forever. I’ve done it both ways, I’ve compressed many (I’ve owned a lot of old vehicles) and I’ve had a shop do the compressing for me two times and that, to me is just nicer. Especially, when the coils are really tightly spaced like I think these are. You can definitely rent the tool and do it yourself though. I have bilstein on mine as well and they are kind of soft and floaty compared to the stock shocks. I don’t mind it but I think next time I’d go stiffer. Let us know how it goes! Good luck.

while I act like one of the guys, I’m one of the few ladies on this site. Next up, I will be making my own sliders for the 470!

 

[foreste1]

Thank you so much!!! For sure it idled fine and to someone who did not know that vehicle and just got in and drove it, they would have said its fine. Me knowing and owning for so many years, I knew it was not right. Gas mileage bad, every 4-5th time starting took few extra seconds, power did not feel correct and when towing my boat up a hill, motor sounded different under load, all from 1 tooth out!
I am not 100% sure the clunk/bang is from the shock, but seeing the nut is not threaded down as much as the other side, seems like something wrong. It especially makes the noise with more people in truck, when I back up out of driveway and turn wheel to the right, usually a bang.
Good to know on the Bilsteins, I figured it would ride even better than originals, bummed to hear you felt they were softer, maybe thats what I feel that does not seem right to me on the front end.
I was thinking when I take them out to redo, maybe I should lower the notches to make the truck not as high, maybe it would just feel better. Almost feels like its higher up and loser left to right, again very slight and most people would not be able to tell, but its different for sure then it was prior to the lift/shocks.

 

[foreste1]

I noticed in your comments you upgraded to FJ steering box, does that make a difference in the feel? I wish I knew I could of done that, the guy rebuilt mine, and he messed that up too, so I had to have a shop take it out and put in another rebuilt, but I still dont think that feels right either.

 

[foreste1]

On the strut mounts, does it matter what brand to go with the Bilsteins? I dont hear any noise while driving from the mounts, I dont think.

 

[foreste1]

Did you do a diff drop when you added the 5100's? I read some people did those and others dont like them? I was thinking maybe that would help the truck feel for better words (lower center of gravity possibly)?

 

[docjoyce]

I ended up replacing all those plus all the small coolant hoses. It was on the drivers side so I don’t think it was the form in place gasket, but I appreciate the tip. The gasket on the water pump looked like it had failed but the pump itself seemed good still. Been driving it for a couple days and everything seems good.

I wouldn’t hesitate trying to do this job if you are thinking about it. It was not hard at all. Just had to take off a bunch of easy to remove items. The harder to remove parts like the crank bolt and the harmonic balancer were easy with the right tools shown in other threads and otramms videos.

Note: Cam seal was really really easy to roll. Order an extra so you aren’t dead in the water if it happens like it did to me.

if I were to do this again I would remove the radiator because the damn thing completely tore up my arms. That was easily the most terrible part.

Thanks for putting this up. I am looking into a 470 and its good to see ahead of time.

 

[docjoyce]

While I am at it and actively searching.

I am putting the excursion on towing only duty, we bought it back in 16 with 50k miles on it from a friend of a family member. Absolutely wonderful for family of five and dogs. It is still mint at 150k miles.
The reason I bring it up is I am looking for another unicorn scenario in a 470. Why the 470? I like the looks and I think it would be a smaller, more daily driver than our current, tired, 01 Yukon (which we affectionately refer to as the trash truck).
I am allergic to car payments so a newer 460 just doesn't really make sense for us.
What am I getting myself into @Infinity00 ?