Recovery points, tow-straps, bridles, newbie questions (1 Viewer)

[occamsrazor]

Hi,

I swear I must have read every thread on recovery on the internet now, and still I'm confused. I have an all-stock 2004 LC100 4.7L v8 - no front or rear bars, and no winch. I don't do much offroad and nothing very hardcore but I do go on safaris (I live in Kenya) where it gets fairly remote. I got stuck in mud on one a few months ago and eventually managed to get out using branches under the wheels but it got me thinking about having some proper recovery gear.

1. Ladder tracks -I want to get a pair of these - http://www.maxtrax.com.au - to help me get out of mud without assistance by another vehicle. They look good, if a little expensive. Thoughts?

2. Recovery points. Mine has factory hooks and tie-down loops. See attached pic showing hook, left, and loop, right. Pic shows the rear ones, there's similar at front). There's tie-down on all 4 corners but only one hook front and back. I know the tie-down loops with a hole are not suitable for recovery.
It seems the factory hooks are either perfectly fine, or will break in a second, depending on which half of the internet you ask. What to do. No-one here sells proper rated points. So I'm thinking my best option is to install a second pair of the factory hooks from a used vehicle in both the front and rear, that way I can use two with a recovery bridle to spread the load. Does this make sense to do?

3. Recovery bridles. I seem to see very few specifically described as such. I see a lot of tree protectors for sale though and my reading suggests these are OK to use as a bridle. If I just hook the end loops of the tree protector directly onto two factory hooks, will that be a reasonable bridle solution? If so what is a good length to have for the bridle?

4. Towing/recovery straps. I've read a lot about the dangers of kinetic snatch straps and have decided not to go down that route. Why? Well I am not that experienced myself, and the other question is if I get stuck will I trust the driver of a passing vehicle to know how to use a snatch strap properly? Will he have proper recovery points on his vehicle? Both are unlikely. So I think I'm better off with a non-kinetic tow rope that I can use for simple non-kinetic recovery (by me or for me) or towing, connected to the bridle. I do like the idea of a rope/strap with a little give though, to even out forces when towing for example. Straps seem to take up a lot less space than ropes. So can anyone recommend a good, non-kinetic, towing strap that has a little give?
How long should a towing strap be? In the UK I hear the legal limit is 4.5m but that sounds rather short to me for towing on a highway for example. There's no regulations here so what would be a good strap length for (non-kinetic) recovery and for towing?

I know a lot of this has been answered before, but the opinions and information given are a bit confusing to me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mark W]

even if you choose not to use momentum/inetia to extrract you from a 'stuck", you really so still want to use a recovery strap that strectches and gives. A non-shock absorbing strap or a chain will damage components with what seem to be surprisingly small shock loads.


If you chose to use a bridle, you want it to be as long as feasible. The shorter the bridle, the greater side loading is placed on the recovery points.

The addition of extra factory tow hooks is a good choice. if you have a receiver style tow bar on the rear, this makes for a very strong recovery point.

Factory tie down ponts are generally suitable for a winch recovery or a simple (non-kinetic) tow/drag style recovery.

You will never complain that a recovery strap is too long. you will often finds that they are too short (to allow the other vehicle to remain on solid ground). Go with a 30 ft/10 meter strap... 4.5 meters is silly for recovery use.


Mark...

 

[occamsrazor]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated..

even if you choose not to use momentum/inetia to extrract you from a 'stuck", you really so still want to use a recovery strap that strectches and gives. A non-shock absorbing strap or a chain will damage components with what seem to be surprisingly small shock loads.

Interesting, I was wondering about that. So are you saying that if I use a kinetic recovery/snatch strap but take it very slowly i.e. only starting to pull from an already taught strap, rather than getting momentum up on the pulling vehicle, then this will be similar to using a non-elastic strap and less dangerous than a real snatch recovery?

If you chose to use a bridle, you want it to be as long as feasible. The shorter the bridle, the greater side loading is placed on the recovery points.

Most of the tree trunk protectors I see are 3m. Does that sound reasonable for a bridle?

The addition of extra factory tow hooks is a good choice. if you have a receiver style tow bar on the rear, this makes for a very strong recovery point.

No tow bar unfortunately..

You will never complain that a recovery strap is too long. you will often finds that they are too short (to allow the other vehicle to remain on solid ground). Go with a 30 ft/10 meter strap... 4.5 meters is silly for recovery use.

Thanks. And for towing off and onroad, do I need a second strap? E.g. for another vehicle towing me say 50-100km to a nearby town on gravel or tarmac road, what length would you recommend? I read people saying don't use a recoery strap for that because it can wear out the elastic by stretching and also if the strap drags on the ground. Though was thinking if I had a 10m recovery strap I could double it up to be a 5m tow strap with half the elasticity which might work for towing, no?

Thanks

 

[Mark W]

if you just pull forward and start a tug with your strap tight, the stress involved is far lower than a dynamic snatch and the strap stores very very little. You will not come anywhere near the breaking limit of a undamaged strap. The elasticity of the strapp will absorb any small unexpected shock loading.

Besides... you WILL eventually perform dynamic snatches unless you never really get stuck enough to mention.

You want the two legs of your bridle to be as close to parallel as you can get them. Obviously truly parallel is impossible, but you wantr the angle to be very small. 3 meters is too short for anything that is inteneded to be used this way. I have seen tow hooks bent over and the frame distorted from short bridles and heavy loading. Even not very heavy loading. A 20 foot strap (10 foot legs) works well for this.

Just to clarify, I did not mean a tow bar (like used on the front if a vehicle to pull it behind another rig0, but a receiver hitch system... the assembly under the rig that the stub with the ball slides into. While a trailer tow ball is a dangerous place to attach to for a snatch style recovery, the receiver assembly itself is very stout.

If you want to flat tow a vehicle on the highway or even trail with a strap or chain, then a bit shorter is often better. Any strap is gonna drag if you are sloppy about your towing and dragging on a hard surface will damage it. Driving over it with the front tires of the towed rig if it gets slack enough can destroy it. :0
The strap will not be damaged by the normal loading/unloading as you tow.

I prefer a short rope or strap at one end and a chain for the rest of the length if I have to flat tow this way. The only purpose of the strap (or rope) would be to cushion shock loads between the rigs a little. A chain is much more tolerant of being dragged than a strap.

If I had to use a 10 meter strap for a flat tow, I would double it.

Mark...

 

[occamsrazor]

Mark, that's all very helpful, thank you. So basically I should get the extra factory hooks (I don't have tow bar), a 30 ft/10 meter recovery strap, and a 20ft/6 meter bridle and that should cover me. If I'm using the factory hooks I won't need a shackle, but maybe good to have in case the other vehicle's points aren't hook type.
For onroad towing, would it then just be better to use the bridle not as a bridle but in a line as a tow-rope for a single-point tow? I assume they could be used for that..

 

[spressomon]

occamsrazor,

Although the open hook recovery point you have shown in your first post is not rated AFAIK it probably is fine for most static type recovery events. This style hook came from Toyota, at least the 100-Series delivered here in the USA, mounted on the rear of the vehicle's frame.

The other J" style hook (shown here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=7451172&postcount=7) that seems to be the source of breaking/snapping stories came mounted on the front of the vehicle's frame. Supposedly this hook's design is intended to get the anchor point below the OEM front bumper's lower fascia; makes sense given the the proximity of the frame relative to the low hanging OEM front bumper.

Whereas the rear hook when mounted to the front of the vehicle's frame could chafe the lower edge of the OEM bumper especially if the 100 is stuck nose down relative to the recovery/pulling vehicle.

 

[occamsrazor]

The other J" style hook (shown here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=7451172&postcount=7) that seems to be the source of breaking/snapping stories came mounted on the front of the vehicle's frame.

Yes I have one of those on the drivers-front side (see pic attached). So those are worse than the rear ones then? How bad exactly? Do you think if I have two and bridle them I should be OK for a pull not snatch recovery? Why on earth would anyone build a heavy 4x4 with weak recovery points? It would be so easy to have them super-strong if you did it from the factory. Everywhere online says make sure you have rated recovery points, but actually finding them seems very hard.

The only good thing I can see about the J-hooks is you don't need to use a shackle to attach a strap to them, unlike the ones with a hole. One less potentially flying object.

@spressomon - you're not making recovery points anymore, right? The only others I found online were www.lukeys4x4.com but Australia is a long way away.

 

[spressomon]

Personally I don't like nor advise anyone use the "J" hook for anything more than a paperweight. However the only way to accurately know the yield strength of a recovery point is to destructive test it. I'm not an engineer but having said that I wouldn't trust nor think the "J" hook could reliably and safely perform to task for recovery purposes of a Land Cruiser.

Although the costs to mfg my FRBv2 are higher than before I am looking at putting a group buy together to at least cover a portion of my production costs (~25 unit pre-order/group buy). I should have costing info early next week and will post up in the classifieds under the same FRBv2 thread I had previously. Target price with grd 12.9 bolts and washers is $99 ea for the FRBv2. The longer bolt version, FRBv2L, will be $10ea more.

With the low hanging OEM bumper you will have to make a choice whether you use the rear mounted OEM hook up front or my FRBv2, for some types of recovery events (recovery line position relative to anchor point on the frame), whether the bumper appearance is more important than being recovered . My FRBv2 will fit all current bumpers including ARB Combo, Sahara and Ironman...

 

[jdezine]

2002 UZJ100 recovery point installation

Hi all, this is my first post, and I thought I would share these photos of the Lukeys 4x4 recovery points. I'm a noob, but I have learnt a lot from ih8mud so...

1) the stuff I needed to do the job (including a 19mm socket and a 450mm breaker bar)

2) in situ

3) there were different lengths bolt for mounting the recovery points- the J hook had longer bolts, the other shorter.

I reversed the old J hook so I could just reuse the original bolts and I also had to remove a factory bullbar side bolt to let the (shorter bolts without the j hook) recovery point fit. This is the reason for the differing 'heights' for the points.

Cheers
Jay

 

[serenity]

I have maxtrax. Best thing for self recovery, especially in areas with no trees when you are 4wding alone. Last time I used them a half hour dig in the sand turned into a 1 minute recovery.
Best kept on your roof rack if used in mud.

Lukeys4x4 recovery points are stout, had them on my 80. I snatched it up a muddy ledge after it got high centered and dug itself in. But when you fit them replace all the Toyota hardware with 8.8 grade gear. If you are using them for really heavy recoveries I would drill out the nuts welded to the frame, scab plate and use graded nuts as well.