- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Threads
- 22
- Messages
- 127
- Thread starter
- #21
Here's the pic. You can see the gap
Rear Pinion Seal Replacement
- Thread starter bluemax009
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
that should be ok as long as its holding the oil in the diff. ill take a pic of mine since I also have the heavy duty marlin seal
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Threads
- 22
- Messages
- 127
- Thread starter
- #24
The flange is seated well. No issues there. I guess I'm just unfamiliar with what a crush seal is.
The crush sleeve fits between the cones of the bearings. It's a great way to NOT have to shim the
pinion bearings- there's a specified preload, and you crush the sleeve to achieve that preload. Carefully.
The problem comes when you unload the spacer- it SHOULD be ok if you return the
nut to where it was originally. However, sometimes the sleeve doesn't maintain its shape,
and then the bearing cones are free to move a bit- and the worst part is that the
pinion flange (driveshaft flange) also gets loose, too, and chows itself (and the pinion splines)
in the process.
So yeah, a solid spacer is worth the trouble to do if you have the ability. But it's also
not necessary IF the crush sleeve survives. Or if you're comfortable setting up a new one.
Replacement involves pulling the bearing(s) off the pinion, so it's a noticable procedure...
more than one banana, certainly.
fwiw
t
pinion bearings- there's a specified preload, and you crush the sleeve to achieve that preload. Carefully.
The problem comes when you unload the spacer- it SHOULD be ok if you return the
nut to where it was originally. However, sometimes the sleeve doesn't maintain its shape,
and then the bearing cones are free to move a bit- and the worst part is that the
pinion flange (driveshaft flange) also gets loose, too, and chows itself (and the pinion splines)
in the process.
So yeah, a solid spacer is worth the trouble to do if you have the ability. But it's also
not necessary IF the crush sleeve survives. Or if you're comfortable setting up a new one.
Replacement involves pulling the bearing(s) off the pinion, so it's a noticable procedure...
more than one banana, certainly.
fwiw
t
Crush sleeves are, by nature, expected to be one-time use devices. It is basically a spring that you're permanently deforming on the first install. The second install has no guarantee of getting the same pre-load again since the compression distance is now different.
That isn't my biggest gripe with crush sleeves. Neither is needing to replace the pinion seal easily. I've had two of them "relax" in service and loose the pinion bearing pre-load. One in a Ford 8" diff (same part as used in the Ford 9" diffs) and one in a Toyota 8" Mini-truck diff. Both got worked hard on occasion, but neither was abused. No more crush sleeves for me. I'll make the solid spacer if I have to. Most come with shims and it is a simple though slightly time consuming process to set the bearing pre-load (use an old nut). On some diffs (older exotics) the spacer doesn't use shims, you carefully shorten the spacer until you get the desired pre-load. On those I used a surface grinder to shorten the spacer. It is my preferred method as then there are no shims to loose track of, but it takes considerably longer to do that part of the set-up.
That isn't my biggest gripe with crush sleeves. Neither is needing to replace the pinion seal easily. I've had two of them "relax" in service and loose the pinion bearing pre-load. One in a Ford 8" diff (same part as used in the Ford 9" diffs) and one in a Toyota 8" Mini-truck diff. Both got worked hard on occasion, but neither was abused. No more crush sleeves for me. I'll make the solid spacer if I have to. Most come with shims and it is a simple though slightly time consuming process to set the bearing pre-load (use an old nut). On some diffs (older exotics) the spacer doesn't use shims, you carefully shorten the spacer until you get the desired pre-load. On those I used a surface grinder to shorten the spacer. It is my preferred method as then there are no shims to loose track of, but it takes considerably longer to do that part of the set-up.
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Threads
- 22
- Messages
- 127
- Thread starter
- #27
Ok..understanding that I'm a complete rookie here and that I don't mind further revealing my mechanical inadequacies I have no earthly idea what your talking about when you ramble on about crush seals, solid spacers, crush sleeves, or pre-load. I changed the pinion seal. It was easy enough. I dropped the drive train, removed the flange, removed the flange bolt, pulled off the dust cover and replaced the seal, then reassembled in reverse order. I followed the machinist thread, but I can't help but think I missed something terribly important because of the detailed posts about pre load and crush sleeves. Don't mean any disrespect here, just trying to find out what I need to do to get this thing right.
The purpose of Pre-load is to remove the "slack" a bearing may have radially or axially, and thus reduce wear under high-load conditions.
Too much pre-load is just as bad as too little, that's why people are saying to measure it.
Here's a write-up from ZUK - the guy who did mine and plenty of pix of solid spacers and crush washers.
http://gearinstalls.com/hayes.htm
Toyota uses the crush sleeves on these as it's faster (cheaper) to setup than a solid spacer.
Crush sleeve on the right (crushed) and SS on the left:
Too much pre-load is just as bad as too little, that's why people are saying to measure it.
Here's a write-up from ZUK - the guy who did mine and plenty of pix of solid spacers and crush washers.
http://gearinstalls.com/hayes.htm
Toyota uses the crush sleeves on these as it's faster (cheaper) to setup than a solid spacer.
Crush sleeve on the right (crushed) and SS on the left:
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Threads
- 22
- Messages
- 127
- Thread starter
- #29
Ok. This makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for your patience spike. I don't think I'm at the point where I need to replace the bearings, pinion or spindle but good to know the details for when I have to.
One more question for ya since I have you here. I just had both my manifolds planed down. Before I did that there were 1/4 to1/8 gaps in them. S when the mechanic I hired re seated the manifolds on the head he put two gaskets in there. Now I realize this was his very elementary attempt to fix the manifold leak without planing the manifolds however, I'm curious if I should put both gaskets back on just to ensure I compensate for any warpage that may have happened to the head? Or should I just go with one?
One more question for ya since I have you here. I just had both my manifolds planed down. Before I did that there were 1/4 to1/8 gaps in them. S when the mechanic I hired re seated the manifolds on the head he put two gaskets in there. Now I realize this was his very elementary attempt to fix the manifold leak without planing the manifolds however, I'm curious if I should put both gaskets back on just to ensure I compensate for any warpage that may have happened to the head? Or should I just go with one?
It would take a lot more for the head to warp than the manifolds. Particularly at that area... If you're worried, just put a straight edge against the mating surfaces and check. If you've had the manifolds surfaced just use one good (Fel-Pro) gasket and torque accordingly, and re-torque after a few hundy miles.
Edit: and be aware, they prolly did not "Spot-face" the recessed surfaces where the manifold assy washers sit. If those surfaces are uneven, cut some washers in half and stack them to level the surfaces. If the surfaces are uneven, unequal torque on the "higher" surface can crack the soft alum ...
There are other threads on this if you haven't seen it.
Edit: and be aware, they prolly did not "Spot-face" the recessed surfaces where the manifold assy washers sit. If those surfaces are uneven, cut some washers in half and stack them to level the surfaces. If the surfaces are uneven, unequal torque on the "higher" surface can crack the soft alum ...
There are other threads on this if you haven't seen it.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Threads
- 22
- Messages
- 127
- Thread starter
- #31
All good advice. Thank again.
I just got the pinion kit from SOR. Seal, bolt, sleeve. Every thing I read seams to leave the sleeve task out and just do the seal. Well then why did they sell me this sleeve? I want to do both but I'm a bit nervous to dig that deep into the third. I don't have a press or acces to one currently. Not sure I have the right puller needed to get the bearing out. anyone know of a link of this complete job not just the seal? I looked through the above and found the rear end guys website and looked through his diff breakdown link, further cautioning me against attempting the sleeve. Thoughts? Suggestions?