NaterGator
On Gilligan's Island
Hmm, definitely odd. Other things to check: perhaps swap coil with loaner? All grounds (fuel pump ground too)? Interesting that you are not throwing a DTC for a specific cylinder misfire.
Real Time Help: Fuel delivery Issue
- Thread starter Grench
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
After reading everything in your posts did your welding get done before all this started or at the sametime?(i read it as way before but just checking)
You were in the dash anything get pinched or moved ? how about checking all the spots that cause this stuff like the harness at the EGR or at the ECM where it rubs the metal in the dash .
You may have just upset something that was "a little loose" to "a little more loose"
Sorry i have no other ideas other then this .
You were in the dash anything get pinched or moved ? how about checking all the spots that cause this stuff like the harness at the EGR or at the ECM where it rubs the metal in the dash .
You may have just upset something that was "a little loose" to "a little more loose"
Sorry i have no other ideas other then this .
Spitballin'
Hey,
Fuel cap(s)? Onboard Vapor Recovery System? Fuel Filter Socks?
Have you been able to gauge when it's sputtering? As discussed with the shredded belt scenario, using Analytical Trouble Shooting, what were the last things changed before the prob surfaced? Maybe it's that grade hose after all? Collapsing? Kinked?
Good luck...let us know how it turns out!
Hey,
Fuel cap(s)? Onboard Vapor Recovery System? Fuel Filter Socks?
Have you been able to gauge when it's sputtering? As discussed with the shredded belt scenario, using Analytical Trouble Shooting, what were the last things changed before the prob surfaced? Maybe it's that grade hose after all? Collapsing? Kinked?
Good luck...let us know how it turns out!
Grench;
This sounds electrical in nature. If fuse #18 [EFI fuse] was intermittent, the conditions u describe would be present.
See http://homepage.mac.com/dfmorse/FuseChart3.5.1/page3/RB2.html
for location.
This is a rare condition; where the fuse or its contacts in the fuse holder are not making good contact. Some time in the past on our forum there was a similar problem with the fuse panel under the hood.
Other possibilities are the EFI MAIN RELAY, CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY, FUEL PUMP RELAY and the FUEL PUMP RESISTOR.
At any rate, something appears to interrupt fuel pressure and what I have described may be do just this.
...
This sounds electrical in nature. If fuse #18 [EFI fuse] was intermittent, the conditions u describe would be present.
See http://homepage.mac.com/dfmorse/FuseChart3.5.1/page3/RB2.html
for location.
This is a rare condition; where the fuse or its contacts in the fuse holder are not making good contact. Some time in the past on our forum there was a similar problem with the fuse panel under the hood.
Other possibilities are the EFI MAIN RELAY, CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY, FUEL PUMP RELAY and the FUEL PUMP RESISTOR.
At any rate, something appears to interrupt fuel pressure and what I have described may be do just this.
...
Grench
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #25
Keep the ideas coming...
Coil resistances check per FSM. I'm considering ordering stupid amounts of parts and just start swapping stuff. I'll put a coil on the list.
The welding took place 3.5 weeks prior to the tank install. My wife reminded me that the truck -had- stalled -once- about a week before the welding. She knew when it did it because we were picking up a pair of boots from the repair shop. I'm not 100% sure thats related or just random though.
I feel pretty good about my in-dash wiring. I did take it apart and re-inspected it. I tapped the transfer pump into the cigarette lighter. Other than that, there was no change. Yes, I tried it without the new wiring hooked up and there was no change.
I agree that this has to be electrical at some point. Mechanical stuff is usually regular in failing. In a '96 cruiser there is a -lot- of electrical. I wiggled the harness at the EGR and used mirrors to inspect the shroud around it. I wasn't able to make it fail or not fail by wiggling the harness. I'll have to try it at the entry to the dash.
Don't be sorry. I'll take any input at this point. I'm getting very frustrated. Almost frustrated enough to take it to a Toyota dealer and open my checkbook.
I put on a brand spankin' new fuel cap from Dan that I had sitting in a box as a spare for -when- my wife or I loose one. My old one is now the ready spare. No change. The vapor can is on an independent vac line & line to the tank. Other than replacement, is there a way to check it's function? I'll put it on the -go crazy- parts list.
The hose has been sitting in gas for a few weeks now. No degredation, no kinks, no collapse. If one did collapse, it would only be able to block the filling or the transfer of fuel from the aux to the main. The system from the main to the engine was untouched.
Fuse - I just went out and replaced the EFI fuse. The old one looked fine, but hey, I'll try a $.25 fuse any day. I'll drive it tomorrow. How would I be able to tell if there was a problem with the fuse holder?
EFI Main relay - replaced - twice because the first one was Autozone. Second one was from Dan. No change.
Fuel pump relay - replaced - I stole the one out of my wife's vehicle and swapped it for mine. No change to either vehicle.
Circuit Opening relay - Where is this one or a FSM page please?
Fuel Pump Resistor - Where is this one or a FSM page please?
List of stuff I've bought just to swap/check
EFI relay
Fuel Pump relay (the inside DS fender one)
List of stuff to buy if I decide to just start throwing money at parts that -may- or -may not- be bad.
Coil
Fuel Pump
Charcoal vapor can
Circuit Opening Relay
Fuel Pump Resistor
Any other suggestions if I decide to just start throwing money at parts? Probably the most frustrating part is that it doesn't throw any error codes when it is clearly having an issue.
I have an OBDII reader. I'm thinking about getting a scanner to pull the additional Toyota specific information about current running states to see if I can spot any extra spikes or changes. What is the most informative device / software system available? I'm thinking something that can chart continuously for an hour or two so I can catch a few of these hiccups and see if I can get any more information about this ghost of a gremlin.
Keep the ideas coming.
Coil resistances check per FSM. I'm considering ordering stupid amounts of parts and just start swapping stuff. I'll put a coil on the list.
The welding took place 3.5 weeks prior to the tank install. My wife reminded me that the truck -had- stalled -once- about a week before the welding. She knew when it did it because we were picking up a pair of boots from the repair shop. I'm not 100% sure thats related or just random though.
I feel pretty good about my in-dash wiring. I did take it apart and re-inspected it. I tapped the transfer pump into the cigarette lighter. Other than that, there was no change. Yes, I tried it without the new wiring hooked up and there was no change.
I agree that this has to be electrical at some point. Mechanical stuff is usually regular in failing. In a '96 cruiser there is a -lot- of electrical. I wiggled the harness at the EGR and used mirrors to inspect the shroud around it. I wasn't able to make it fail or not fail by wiggling the harness. I'll have to try it at the entry to the dash.
Don't be sorry. I'll take any input at this point. I'm getting very frustrated. Almost frustrated enough to take it to a Toyota dealer and open my checkbook.
I put on a brand spankin' new fuel cap from Dan that I had sitting in a box as a spare for -when- my wife or I loose one. My old one is now the ready spare. No change. The vapor can is on an independent vac line & line to the tank. Other than replacement, is there a way to check it's function? I'll put it on the -go crazy- parts list.
The hose has been sitting in gas for a few weeks now. No degredation, no kinks, no collapse. If one did collapse, it would only be able to block the filling or the transfer of fuel from the aux to the main. The system from the main to the engine was untouched.
Fuse - I just went out and replaced the EFI fuse. The old one looked fine, but hey, I'll try a $.25 fuse any day. I'll drive it tomorrow. How would I be able to tell if there was a problem with the fuse holder?
EFI Main relay - replaced - twice because the first one was Autozone. Second one was from Dan. No change.
Fuel pump relay - replaced - I stole the one out of my wife's vehicle and swapped it for mine. No change to either vehicle.
Circuit Opening relay - Where is this one or a FSM page please?
Fuel Pump Resistor - Where is this one or a FSM page please?
List of stuff I've bought just to swap/check
EFI relay
Fuel Pump relay (the inside DS fender one)
List of stuff to buy if I decide to just start throwing money at parts that -may- or -may not- be bad.
Coil
Fuel Pump
Charcoal vapor can
Circuit Opening Relay
Fuel Pump Resistor
Any other suggestions if I decide to just start throwing money at parts? Probably the most frustrating part is that it doesn't throw any error codes when it is clearly having an issue.
I have an OBDII reader. I'm thinking about getting a scanner to pull the additional Toyota specific information about current running states to see if I can spot any extra spikes or changes. What is the most informative device / software system available? I'm thinking something that can chart continuously for an hour or two so I can catch a few of these hiccups and see if I can get any more information about this ghost of a gremlin.
Keep the ideas coming.
NaterGator
On Gilligan's Island
Full datalogging would help, but you could probably get away with renting a good Toyota scanner I would imagine. Can you at least try swapping coil packs before you go and buy? You have a donor veh right?
Fuel pump.
-B-
-B-
Grench
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #29
Diagnostic software prefs?
I/we thought that too so we tapped in with a pressure gauge. Checks out dead on High/Low (regulated) pressures.
I'm still tempted to change it.
I'm also thinking about buying some data loging diagnostic gear/software. The issue is intermitant enough that it can be hard to catch while proding & messing with the truck.
Here's my list to work from. If anyone has a favorite that isn't on the list, please let me know.
http://www.auterraweb.com/software.html
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/BR-3/
http://www.autoenginuity.com/products.html
http://www.myscantool.com/index.html
http://www.digimoto.com/
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles..._Windows.shtml
http://prj.perquin.com/obdii/
http://www.injectoclean.com/English/...pc_obdii_.html
http://www.obd2.com/
I have a Garmin 3600 so I'm leaning towards one of them that can work both on a laptop and on a Palm OS (Garmin 3600) device. I've seen through searching that a few people here have the autoenginuity and obd2 devices above. I haven't been able to find any reviews here on IH8MUD though, so if anyone has love/hate for one of the above, I'd love to hear/see it.
Thank you!
I/we thought that too so we tapped in with a pressure gauge. Checks out dead on High/Low (regulated) pressures.
I'm still tempted to change it.
I'm also thinking about buying some data loging diagnostic gear/software. The issue is intermitant enough that it can be hard to catch while proding & messing with the truck.
Here's my list to work from. If anyone has a favorite that isn't on the list, please let me know.
http://www.auterraweb.com/software.html
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/BR-3/
http://www.autoenginuity.com/products.html
http://www.myscantool.com/index.html
http://www.digimoto.com/
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles..._Windows.shtml
http://prj.perquin.com/obdii/
http://www.injectoclean.com/English/...pc_obdii_.html
http://www.obd2.com/
I have a Garmin 3600 so I'm leaning towards one of them that can work both on a laptop and on a Palm OS (Garmin 3600) device. I've seen through searching that a few people here have the autoenginuity and obd2 devices above. I haven't been able to find any reviews here on IH8MUD though, so if anyone has love/hate for one of the above, I'd love to hear/see it.
Thank you!
Grench
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #30
Just updating my own ghost chasing thread
It has come to throwing parts at it. Dan's dogs are getting their due, as are IRBIS's (if he has any.)
Since my last post on this thread I put in new EFI and fuel pump relays (weeks ago)...
Tuesday night I installed new spark plugs, new plug wires, new rotor and new distributor...
Wednesday evening... stutter-stalled.
Tonight I installed a new-to-me (see wrecker) EFI computer. I drove it around for about 20 minutes without problems and am now crossing my fingers. We'll see how it does over the next week.
Next step is a new wiring harness. The price on these is actually reasonable as far as these things go. Should I do the AT harness while I'm there?
It has come to throwing parts at it. Dan's dogs are getting their due, as are IRBIS's (if he has any.)
Since my last post on this thread I put in new EFI and fuel pump relays (weeks ago)...
Tuesday night I installed new spark plugs, new plug wires, new rotor and new distributor...
Wednesday evening... stutter-stalled.
Tonight I installed a new-to-me (see wrecker) EFI computer. I drove it around for about 20 minutes without problems and am now crossing my fingers. We'll see how it does over the next week.
Next step is a new wiring harness. The price on these is actually reasonable as far as these things go. Should I do the AT harness while I'm there?
Grench
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #31
Closing this one out.
It was brought to my attention that I had not properly closed out this thread.
No stutters, no stalls and it has been 6+ months.
The replacement EFI computer was the cure. The cause of the EFI failing? The only thing I can point to as a possibility is the welding done to install the secondary gas tank.
During the welding, the batteries (both) were disconnected. The welding was done by a 20+ year experience professional.
The truck was looked at by at least 12 red necks and tested in just about every way imaginable including diagnostic computers. Much beer was consumed and many many spare parts purchased and swapped in/out.
I'm putting it up to a freak charge jump during welding. Kind of like static discharge only inside the EFI computer. It shouldn't have happened. I'll weld on the truck again some day. When that happens, though, the EFI computer will be sitting on the passenger seat unplugged.
Why did I change the EFI when I did? I found one from IRBIS on a '96 that he was parting out and the price was less than the wiring harness from cruiserdan. If it didn't work, the wiring harnesses were getting changed next. I was out of other things to replace/test/swap.
Since then I have also needed to change the starter motor. I consider it to be completely unrelated though. Contacts were not an option as the PO had seen fit to put in a parts store special (see non-Toyota) starter. I replaced it with a shiny 2.0 from Cruiserdan.
May none of you ever get this gremlin to chase.
YMMV
It was brought to my attention that I had not properly closed out this thread.
No stutters, no stalls and it has been 6+ months.
The replacement EFI computer was the cure. The cause of the EFI failing? The only thing I can point to as a possibility is the welding done to install the secondary gas tank.
During the welding, the batteries (both) were disconnected. The welding was done by a 20+ year experience professional.
The truck was looked at by at least 12 red necks and tested in just about every way imaginable including diagnostic computers. Much beer was consumed and many many spare parts purchased and swapped in/out.
I'm putting it up to a freak charge jump during welding. Kind of like static discharge only inside the EFI computer. It shouldn't have happened. I'll weld on the truck again some day. When that happens, though, the EFI computer will be sitting on the passenger seat unplugged.
Why did I change the EFI when I did? I found one from IRBIS on a '96 that he was parting out and the price was less than the wiring harness from cruiserdan. If it didn't work, the wiring harnesses were getting changed next. I was out of other things to replace/test/swap.
Since then I have also needed to change the starter motor. I consider it to be completely unrelated though. Contacts were not an option as the PO had seen fit to put in a parts store special (see non-Toyota) starter. I replaced it with a shiny 2.0 from Cruiserdan.
May none of you ever get this gremlin to chase.
YMMV
Thanks for the follow-up Grench.
-B-
-B-
