- Thread starter
- #21
Thing is my 80 has been running its 20 years on E10 with no issues. Its just so Mich more expensive to run pure. Even with20% mileage I still would be paying more.
Question about pure gas
- Thread starter mdandashly
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I have run "pure gas" prior to and after my rebuild. I didn't see a large increase in mileage BUT I can tell that the rig has more power and seems to have a lot less knocks and pings.
I buy mine from Cenex here in Poulsbo, WA and it does cost about $2-3 more per tank of gas yet I find it is worth the effort of filling up prior to leaving town.
I buy mine from Cenex here in Poulsbo, WA and it does cost about $2-3 more per tank of gas yet I find it is worth the effort of filling up prior to leaving town.
- Thread starter
- #23
$2-$3 I could manage, but $20-$25 is what it would cost me. Its widely available in Miami because of all the rec boating so you'd think it would be cheaper but its not.
Nope. Lower energy density.
You can get more power but not better mpg. There's just less energy in a gallon of e85 than in a gallon of regular gasoline.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
Nobody ever said boating comes cheap - I plan to try & scour a reliable source year-round for my sled once my LS3 conversion is finished due to the compression ratio. Luckily I live in a agricultural county so you see things that would make Prius types freak (off-road diesel, no ethanol most the year, etc.) We get ethanol free ~7-8 mo/yr -- but 1 county to the south & it's E10% year-round.
The only good ethanol 10% does is bind any condensate/water in your fuel tank(s) & push it on through & out the tailpipe, but 1/2 tank every 7-10 full ones in winter up here is plenty.
Surprised Alaska doesn't do E10% for the winter months, but hey, if they don't why make waves - let sleeping dogs lie!
If you know any boaters - ask them why they are willing to pay that much extra - the reason is that it is worth it. It is less of an issue with most cars and trucks because of tank size and driving frequency but ethanol has become the scourge of the boating industry. With large tanks and potential long intervals between use, boats are very susceptible to damage. Ethanol is hydrophilic (loves water) and will absorb water out of ambient air. The water molecules in the gas have a high affinity for each other and will essentially form condensation within the tank. Being heavier than gas, the water will collect in the bottom of the tank. Boats are (or should) be equiped with water seperating fuel filters, however, they can fail, or become filled with water and no longer function allowing water into the engine. Small power equipement is also very often affected (ask me how I know) due to long intervals between use. Ever try to start a lawnmower after sitting for the winter.
Where in WA are you at Linus?
Guessing by your name, and you mentioned Bellingham, that you may be close to Everett? I get my gas at OK Smoke Mart, it's about 7 blocks North of the Comcast Arena. All Ethanol Free, even the 92 octane. The marina supposedly has Ethanol Free gas too but only 89, which is fine for the Cruiser.
As far as I know, our fuel comes up from the Northwest refinery in Washington. The brilliant people that are in charge here have effectively shut down both of our refineries due to pollution issues and lack of competitiveness. I guess its cheaper to bring giant totes of fuel (gasoline and ULS diesel) up on the barge than make it from the TransAlaska pipeline tap... Oh well.
That said, all of our pumps have the Ethanol stickers on them, usually stating that the fuel might contain as much as 10% alcohol (IIRC), and you are right..its for removing the moisture from the fuel. They tried oxygenated fuels a few years ago to reduce emissions, but found the theory was bunk and dropped the alcohol content back to zero or barely recognizable.
I work for a GM dealership, and its kinda cool when we have a fuel composition error code and we don't have to guess what the fuel in the tank is, just reset the alcohol values to 'ZERO' and let her rip!! Unless the customer has a better idea and dumps gallons of ISOHeet in the tank..........
Some of the tuner crowd here was talking for a while about commissioning the shipment of 55 gallon drums of E85 up to Anchorage, strictly for boosted race applications. Less energy per equal part, but when you cram lots and lots of fuel and air and go a little stupid with timing.... Tire Shredding Fun!!
Oh yeah..... Mdandashly...If you can deal with the culture shock of Miami to Alaska, there are jobs my friend, there are jobs! Just remember..right now I still have to wear my sunglasses on my Harley at 10:30 at night.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
Skagit County - I've been the black 80 in the valley the last ~12 yrs.
I've been an employee at the sulfuric acid refinery, and a shift operator at the now Shell (Texaco to those that knew March Point back in the older times) - so I know a little about the "honey hole" here where we make gas for the local & Seattle region. BP Cherry Point & the Chevron north in British Colombia feed the Whatcom county & north on into Ferndale, Blaine, etc.
And yep, I make a habit of fueling in Skagit if I'm trolling down to Seattle, then refill once back across the county line out of Snohomish county (year around E10% in Snoho)
If you find hopping up to Conway convenient, then ~8 month/yr it's E10 free, just winter they add it.
Nice... I'm in Lynden now. There used to be two stations I could get e10 free, but they both stopped in the last 6 months. There's a couple Starvin Sam's gas stations that carry it in B-ham, I'm not sure if there are any seasonal,winter only stations... The "May contain up to 10%" always gets me. Guess I could ask!
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
My uncle has been a boat dealer owner & it's his passion in life, so we always try to find sources - he's got an outboard & I'm literally in the middle of upping to a LS3 from a Vortec 350 in my sled (so I really plan to try to run E10 free super since comp ratio of LSx is really happier on super)
We need to keep track & use the regional board to keep this a topic of interest - I'm seeing that new product from the fuel conditioning people (yellow box/bottle & has 360* in name) - thinking about it as a fulltime additive once LS3 is running **we'll see** - lots of issues to sort yet, just trial fit motor 1st time ~2 days ago
**Edit - posted last nite @ near midnite & couldn't remember the name Sta-Bil (the stuff you condition/winterize with) - anyhow, they have some new stuff called Sta-Bil 360 I plan to research the heck out of, it'll either be that or going back to an old trick with toluene (for the boat, not $$$ effective for the 1FZ) **
We need to keep track & use the regional board to keep this a topic of interest - I'm seeing that new product from the fuel conditioning people (yellow box/bottle & has 360* in name) - thinking about it as a fulltime additive once LS3 is running **we'll see** - lots of issues to sort yet, just trial fit motor 1st time ~2 days ago
**Edit - posted last nite @ near midnite & couldn't remember the name Sta-Bil (the stuff you condition/winterize with) - anyhow, they have some new stuff called Sta-Bil 360 I plan to research the heck out of, it'll either be that or going back to an old trick with toluene (for the boat, not $$$ effective for the 1FZ) **
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Since we travel west a lot, a few more pennies per mile means the difference between a nice restaurant or cheap fast food on our trips... After 7 years of collecting data I garnered these facts... In our old Rubicon pure gas @ $4.00 a gallon netted us an average of 14mpg, e-10 @ $3.75 averaged 12mpg... Break the math down,, pure gas = 28 cents per mile,, e-10 = 31 cents per mile.. We just bought our 80 last November and so far I'm getting the same results.. Unlike the jeep, our honey badger doesn't care about load.. The jeep averaged 2mpgs less loaded with gear and pulling our trailer, and power sucked with e-10. The cruzer gets 14 with pure, and 12 with e-10 loaded down or empty.. The honey badger doesn't care.. Lovin it!!
...via IH8MUD app
...via IH8MUD app
- Thread starter
- #35
I'll be an attorney in a little under a year. I'll need to start looking for law firm openings
Hornd
SILVER Star
Is it true that since Ethanol freely bonds with water that fuel line freeze up is no longer an issue? Wasn't HEET just methanol anyhow?
I run 87 10% as it is all that is easily available and I run thru it faster then Champagne in a bums hand.
I use GasBuddy.com to find cheapest price within reason (usually Costco)
In all my 2 cycles I run Premium or Midgrade, stabilize when I buy (Can't forget), and only use Amsoil Sabre Oil at 75:1 (Scared of the 100:1 they tout). I have some old stuff (chainsaw from 70's and they still run, therefore hard to argue with success).
I run 87 10% as it is all that is easily available and I run thru it faster then Champagne in a bums hand.
I use GasBuddy.com to find cheapest price within reason (usually Costco)
In all my 2 cycles I run Premium or Midgrade, stabilize when I buy (Can't forget), and only use Amsoil Sabre Oil at 75:1 (Scared of the 100:1 they tout). I have some old stuff (chainsaw from 70's and they still run, therefore hard to argue with success).
- Thread starter
- #37
Reporting back. I tried pure gas for 2 full tanks. 90 octane ethanol free. About a dollar more per gallon. My normal gas was 87 octane E10.
I was getting about 10 mpg. With pure gas I was down to 9.5 mpg on one tank and 8.8 mpg on the second.
Only other thing I noticed was no pressure buildup release when I unscrew the cap.
I was getting about 10 mpg. With pure gas I was down to 9.5 mpg on one tank and 8.8 mpg on the second.
Only other thing I noticed was no pressure buildup release when I unscrew the cap.
- Thread starter
- #38
Bump to see of anyone can explain the drastic decrease in fuel economy
I wonder if it was old. I was concerned about that when I bought it. Not a lot of people are going to pay extra for it. Of course it should last longer before getting old too.
~250 miles is too small of a sample size in my opinion to accurately determine a difference.
At the first fill (18g) you still had a minimum of 5g of the regular gas in the tank to cloud the figures. The second tank was only 10g meaning you arguably only got ~90 miles of pure gas.
As an academic exercise your sample size was far too low to make up for driving variables. If you're interested in making a financial decision, then I would suspect that the pure gas would never make up for the 25% increase in cost just based on the BTU numbers alone.
To expand on the last comment, barring octane differences (which can only be taken advantage of with compression changes) the efficiency of fuel can be broken down simply to it's BTU rating. Regular unleaded has about 114k btus, ans E10 has 111k btus. That number represents a 3% difference in 'power' per gallon. As a result, you could only gain 3% efficiency without making any other engine changes. Since the maximum efficiency increase you can achieve is 3%, a 25% increase in cost will never result in a money savings.
At the first fill (18g) you still had a minimum of 5g of the regular gas in the tank to cloud the figures. The second tank was only 10g meaning you arguably only got ~90 miles of pure gas.
As an academic exercise your sample size was far too low to make up for driving variables. If you're interested in making a financial decision, then I would suspect that the pure gas would never make up for the 25% increase in cost just based on the BTU numbers alone.
To expand on the last comment, barring octane differences (which can only be taken advantage of with compression changes) the efficiency of fuel can be broken down simply to it's BTU rating. Regular unleaded has about 114k btus, ans E10 has 111k btus. That number represents a 3% difference in 'power' per gallon. As a result, you could only gain 3% efficiency without making any other engine changes. Since the maximum efficiency increase you can achieve is 3%, a 25% increase in cost will never result in a money savings.
