PTO Winch

[fj487]

I got an FJ with an origional Winch and it keeps shearing the pin that mates 2 main shafts. My dad got some OEM replacement pins but it still keeps doing it. I also know that certain parts cant go with it because it gets in the way, is it even worth having?

 

[sadam_husain]

they are only a 4mm shear pin and undersized, theres not enough meat left on the coupling to drill it out any further, I'm using a nissan patrol pto shaft and winch on my 40 with a bigger 8mm pin in the yoke and it holds up fine

 

[cjgoode]

I am no expert but I would be looking into the winch to see if it is binding or something. You would rather have the sheer pin brake then the gears in the winch.

When does it brake, under load or just testing it? More details on what is happening when it brakes will help the experts.

A PTO is a really cool winch, but if you are hard core off road an electric winch is much better. Stall the engine in a water crossing and an electric winch likely can get you out, but a PTO is worthless if the engine is not running.

 

[misterpepper]

I vote drill it out. If you drill it out to 5mm it will only come 0.5mm (about the thickness of 2 business cards) closer to the edge, but your force to shear the pin will go up by just over 50%. That should be about right to still protect, but not shear the pin so often.

 

[peteinjp]

Many replace with a bolt but I'm going to give the 70 series pin a try:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/439883-need-pto-winch-shear-pin-u-joint-part-numbers-3.html

Pete

 

[fj487]

Im thinking if i use a ss or titanium 1/4" rivet, it should solve this problem! Titanium shears alot cleaner

 

[fj487]

Cj, it shears under load.

 

[peteinjp]

What kind of load are you putting on it? What kind pulls ?

Pete

 

[SteveH]

My factory PTO is pretty hard on shear pins when pulling stumps - that's just the way it is. Before you decide that you need to drill it out, figure out if your shear pin failure rate is normal or excessive. My PTO (based on my experience) doesn't pull as hard as an 8274 Warn before it shears the pin.

 

[Living in the Past]

A PTO is a really cool winch, but if you are hard core off road an electric winch is much better. Stall the engine in a water crossing and an electric winch likely can get you out, but a PTO is worthless if the engine is not running.

I know everybody brings up if the engine dies on a water crossings but every time I see a picture of one dead in the water someone from the bank is trying to winch it out. The front end is under water in fast flowing stream. How well does a electric winch work under the water. Plus how long of a pull would it do without the battery going dead. In the first place not sure I would be making water crossings by myself in water that is deep enough to flood the engine.

If you do decide to go with a electric winch you should know the FJ40/FJ55 were not set up to run electric winch. Your looking at upgrading alternator and add a second battery to do it right. Otherwise expect to do a very short pull and then wait for the battery to charge back up. Then remember the motor in the winch is basically a starter motor not designed to run long periods under load and will over heat. Both electric and PTO winch have their advantages and disadvantage (the main in the OEM winch is a light shear pin) but if I'm looking for a work horse designed to do long pulls all day long I'm going PTO. These are more than something that looks cool on the front.

 

[cjgoode]

I have gone into water crossings that were not deeper then the bumper but something soaked the electronics enough to kill the engine. An electric winch would have pulled me out. We sat in the water and got all the stuff dried out and eventually it started, but yes there would be cases where neither would help you, but there is probably not many case where a PTO would work when an electric would not.

Performance for hard core you go with a good warn 8274, if you want cool you stay with the PTO. I would trade my 8274 for a complete PTO setup in a heart beat, but do not think I could find that big of a fool to trade me.

 

[jagota]

Im thinking if i use a ss or titanium 1/4" rivet, it should solve this problem! Titanium shears alot cleaner

1/4" is 6 mm, it would take a bit more to shear that.

 

[landyNZ]

If you do decide to go with a electric winch you should know the FJ40/FJ55 were not set up to run electric winch.

Eh? There is a factory electric in the FSM. That winch and the load it presented to the electrical system were enough for the vehicle as a utilitarian vehicle being used to get to hard places all over the world. It is not up to the standard of modern winches designed for people who are looking for the most challenging terrain possible to try and cross with their recreational toys.

Toyota didn't design the electrics to handle a 12,000 lb winch because they weren't selling a vehicle off the dealership floor that needed a 12k winch. If you need one, you likely don't have a stock Landcruiser in other ways.

fj487, if you feel it is blowing pins too often then check the internals of the winch head. The seals on the worm shaft have a habit of attracting dust and failing, leaking oil from the case as they do so. I have two winch heads in my garage, both arrived dry from the previous owners, both were hard to turn by hand and under load I suspect would present excessive load. Filled with oil (hello oil leak) they both became vastly easier to turn by hand, and under load would not be trying to shave bronze from the spur gear. If you have excessive friction in the head, you will blow pins on loads that should not blow pins. Worth a look.

If you open it, you may as well replace all the seals anyway, they are all off the shelf items available from any major seal maker. It will also let you know if your winch is virgin, which many are (got no use) or has been used to drag trees around and is half wrecked.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

Do not bother with the factory upgrade shear pin it will break at a light load (1.5 tons) and at the worst possible time, when in deep mud or snow. I replaced the shear pin with a cap screw and it has been fine.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

I have gone into water crossings that were not deeper then the bumper but something soaked the electronics enough to kill the engine. An electric winch would have pulled me out. We sat in the water and got all the stuff dried out and eventually it started, but yes there would be cases where neither would help you, but there is probably not many case where a PTO would work when an electric would not.

Performance for hard core you go with a good warn 8274,if you want cool you stay with the PTO. I would trade my 8274 for a complete PTO setup in a heart beat, but do not think I could find that big of a fool to trade me.

Even with an electric winch you need the engine running, because without the alternator your battery will not last very long. A 4.6 hp elactric winch motor will draw 4.6 hp x 746 watts/hp = 3,431.6 watts/12 volt = 285 amps. A 285 amp draw will kill your battery very fast. There are no clear winners between PTO and electric winches only 'pros' and 'cons' over either one, depending on your recovery situation.
I have seen both fail under adverse situations.

"not many case where a PTO would work when an electric would not" -- fried electric winch solinoids would do it - I have seen that twice that I can remember

 

[shelfboy1]

on a rollover once i used my pto winch to right the truck using the starter motor as power. and leaving the truck in gear .i also pulled the plugs coil wire and fuel line .worked good the one time i needed it.

 

[Living in the Past]

Eh? There is a factory electric in the FSM. That winch and the load it presented to the electrical system were enough for the vehicle as a utilitarian vehicle being used to get to hard places all over the world. It is not up to the standard of modern winches designed for people who are looking for the most challenging terrain possible to try and cross with their recreational toys.

I would be intersted in seeing what years and what markets these were available for the 40 series. I knew the 70 series got a electric winch but here in the US I don't believe a electric winch was ever offered on any Land Cruiser. Weren't the 24 volt diesels already setup with dual batteries? A higher output alternator and your set. In the US market I know the later alternators had a higher output (how much higher?) but the early land cruiser were very weak. Driving around at night with both heaters on the headlights would go dim at a stop light. Just as a true towing package includes things like upgraded tramission and brakes not just the hitch on the back I would have thought a stock electric winch would have been the same way. In the US we did not get a lot of things offered in other markets like granny gear transmissions, full floating axles and diesel engines. Starting with the 79 model until the automatic overdrive transmission in 88 were got 3:70 diffs instead of 4:10 diffs. This wasn't done to make it a better offroad vehicle but to help with highway speed and gas mileage. If Toyota had brought in cable lockers, diesel engines, full floating axles, H41 and H55F transmission there would not be the import market for these items we have now. Living in the Southwest part of the US we have some pretty nice surviving old land cruisers. Just too bad they weren't better equipped.

 

[landyNZ]

24 volts was standard on the diesels in Canada and other cold climate markets , it wasn't in warmer climates. Electric winches were fitted at the factory on Cruisers from 08.1980 - 04.1986 on BJ4x, FJ4x and HJ4x series Landcruisers.
My local dealer says the factory electrics were rare in NZ where I am. They were very expensive relative to the PTO winch so people tended to go for PTO.

The size of alt doesn't change tremendously based on the load presented to it, at least not so far as the winch is concerned. The power for the winch comes from the battery, it is a short duration massive current drain. No practical alternator will keep up with that drain. So whether you then replenish the battery at the 30~50 amps that the stock alts do, or uprate it and recharge faster doesn't really make a difference. Bigger will reduce the time taken to charge the battery back to full, but in terms of the power available to winch from, that is purely down to the battery. Given how long it takes to cool down the winch after a hard pull your battery should be back to full either way.

Unless you stall and the battery is still low from the pull, in which case you are screwed anyway.

 

[subzali]

...Unless you stall and the battery is still low from the pull, in which case you are screwed anyway.

That happened to me once, and I discovered that the battery recovered after a few minutes and I was able to restart off the battery.