Possible HDJ81 purchase, thoughts?

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B

BCGeo

Joined
Apr 10, 2015
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Location
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Hey guys,

I'm new here so my apologies if I've made a mistake on where to post.

I've been looking to purchase a Diesel 80 series and found these two in Vancouver.
I think the second one is also for sale on MUD (Link).

Questions:
1. Do you guys know the car/driver?
2. In your experienced view, what do you think? Do they look like reliable long-lasting vehicles?
3. And a long shot - but how much $$ do you think they would take to get into top highway shape (I'll worry about off-road worthy later)?

--
My goal is to get a vehicle that I can take into the bush when camping and trust it to get me back out. I travel around Western Canada and into the Northwest Territories reasonably frequently too so it must have good highway manners. No rock crawling or anything. Lastly, it has to be able to help my family when towing one of these, a 13ft 1970's Boler Trailer, for front-country camping.
1974-Boler.jpg

Though any mid-sized SUV will be more than capable of that since the trailer is only ~1200 lbs (550 kg) loaded.

I've always loved Toyota and the Land Cruiser platform so I started by narrowing down my sights from there. I decided on an 80 series due to their apparently better highway manners than and 40,60,70 series. I also ruled out the 100 and up series due to cost and increased electronics (elec. is not my thing).

Then onto engines, I liked the increased fuel efficiency and simplicity of the diesels, plus the BEB is a one time job whereas the the head gasket failures seem to be repeating. HZ i thought might be a little under powered for the mountains. HD-T, HD-FT, or HD-FTE would all be great for me, but HD-Ts seem to be much more frequent a find in Canada.

Let me know if my reasoning seems wrong anywhere. I'm more than open to hear opinions and bounce ideas around.
 
The weak point of these trucks is the auto tranny, your link B has the wholesale auto rebuild in it which is huge dollars but a reportedly very good "investment". If you PM @ElectricDyck here on 'mud, he would be able to help you with some towing questions as he tows a similar trailer with his hdj81 on a stock tranny.
Based on the prices, which all seem pretty decent for the work done to them, you have some good choices. I am not familiar with any of the 3 trucks you have listed.

I bought my 81 for 15k several years ago now, and have probably put damn near the same (ughh!) back into it for "improvements", maintenance, etc etc etc.
The only major big ticket item to fail on mine was when all the injector pump seals decided to leak all over the driveway a few years ago.

As for point 2. Yes, very reliable long lasting vehicles. While mine is no longer a daily driver and I don't put a lot of km's into it, I have taken 2 long road trips. One was to Oregon, and then from there over to California and did the Rubicon trail, then left there down to Disneyland and back home. The next trip was from here to Moab, Utah, several days 4x4ing, and then back home again.

Point 3, from the adds they all appear road worthy as is, but do your due diligence and have them inspected.
 
If you are towing you will need the bigger brakes (1993+) or the retrofit, a tranny cooler and tranny temp garage. The 1995-1997 have both the big front brakes and bigger rear brakes.
Get ATEB to check them out.
 
First off, thank you both very much for the replies.

Enigma,
Are the auto transmissions particularly troublesome on these vehicles? In the research I've done here on Mud I haven’t been seen that as something to really consider. I've had experience with crap auto trannys and don’t want to deal with that again.

On the tranny note, I’m getting conflicting results when I search for the transmission info on diesel 80s. What years ran the A440F vs. the A442F, or am I off altogether?


Glenn,
Both the links above claim to have replaced the brakes with larger ones – “Big brake kit from Lexus” on car A and “larger Toyota front brakes” on the car B. I imagine that would be sufficient, but let me know if you feel otherwise. Or would a 95+ be worth it to hold out on?

I’m out of the province at the moment, but will try to stop by ATEB once I’m back in town.
 
The second truck is what i would buy for towing and toying . And its an outback truck everything would have been done for sure beb's etc.that outback premium package is a super good package.. ateb are the original outback mechanical guys.
 
The auto transmissions are not troublesome on these vehicles, but out of all the drivetrain components I would say they are the weakest link only
after doing any engine modifications to increase power. In stock form they are fine.
I drove mine for years up the Coquihalla doing 100km/hr (not towing anything), big black clouds of black smoke behind me, with no adverse affects and blissfull ignorance with only a boost gauge.
When I finally did start having issues with the transmission is turned out to be a plugged cooling line.
The diesels have the A442f. There is no A440f used in the diesel series.

A '95 would be nice, but there does not seem to be a lot of the available here, and you wuld probably be paying more for one without all the upgrades in the examples you have listed.
 
wrongway around said:
The second truck is what i would buy for towing and toying . And its an outback truck everything would have been done for sure beb's etc.that outback premium package is a super good package.. ateb are the original outback mechanical guys.
Click to expand...

This. The transmission upgrade seems like a big plus to me.

For the factory change to the bigger brakes and electronically controlled transmission, I believe that happened with the change to "Series 2." Or maybe it's not called that, but anyway, it's from the '94's so production of those started in late '93. There's not many of these around. Everyone was bringing in the earlier ones and then when the '94's were available to import i believe the CAD/JPY rate dropped so there weren't nearly as many imported. '95's changed to the 1HD-FT engines. Probably rarer than hen's teeth in Canada.
 
I've had mine in Alberta for 9 years. The trucks are reliable, but any truck that age is going to need maintenance. I do everything myself and that is part of my enjoyment. I also don't use it for commuting to work so if it sits in my garage for a few weeks apart, or even a month it's not a big deal. I two more than 400lbs with mine from time to time. I've towed that both up and down the highway to hell. It's slow, but it can be done. The secret to towing with these trucks is to take it easy, put a gauge on everything and drive it responsibly. If you want a serious highway cruiser, this is not it. You don't have the power or gears for fast highway towing. If you can deal with taking your time and if you are a good driver who can deal all the non sense on the road you will get there and back. The thing to remember is there is no computer on these trucks to tell you to back off, you can easily blow the turbo, transmission, or overheat if you want to. It's all on you to manage it with some upgrades and even more importantly responsible driving. I love my beast.
IMG_00000130.webp
IMG_20150416_174044_hdr.webp
 
x2 Guages on everything, slow and steady..For example my buddy in his new Dodge Cummins got to Fort Nelson approximately 2.5 hours faster than I did, both towing equal loads....the difference is I burnt less fuel and he had to park at the trailhead :)

On one northern trip, it was august and pretty hot out, I was pulling the hills out of the Peace river valley after driving there straight from Abbotsford towing the trailer, loaded with gear and just couldn't get the tranny to stay cool, even tried low range 20km/h, the temps just kept climbing...we pulled over and let her idle for 1/2 and hour until the temps got back to normal and then carried on without an issue..

I have a big tranny cooler on mine already but I think this year I will add another of equal size just for hot weather hill driving..
 
ElectricDyck said:
x2 Guages on everything, slow and steady..For example my buddy in his new Dodge Cummins got to Fort Nelson approximately 2.5 hours faster than I did, both towing equal loads....the difference is I burnt less fuel and he had to park at the trailhead :)

On one northern trip, it was august and pretty hot out, I was pulling the hills out of the Peace river valley after driving there straight from Abbotsford towing the trailer, loaded with gear and just couldn't get the tranny to stay cool, even tried low range 20km/h, the temps just kept climbing...we pulled over and let her idle for 1/2 and hour until the temps got back to normal and then carried on without an issue..

I have a big tranny cooler on mine already but I think this year I will add another of equal size just for hot weather hill driving..
Click to expand...

I have thought about the valve body upgrade for the lock out of 3rd gear, which you spend a lot of time in towing in hills. I used 4low a few times myself to get cooler temperatures on long stretches of road. You need OD lockout to cool the transmission and you can achieve that at 40km/hr. I find you just can't achieve it in 2nd or 3rd. I did the 7 pin mod to allow the use of 4 low on dry pavement for that purpose and it works like a charm.
 
We work on and build a lot of 81 series. The biggest problem I find is crappy transmissions. Partially due to valve body problems and loose cables. Crappy shifts cook trannys, effect performance and mileage. Over sized tires and factory gearing also wreck trannys. Heat is not your tranny's friend

We do pre purchase inspections. There are some mints units out there and a hand full turds.
there is a lot of good info on this forum about problems and how $$$$ some of them are to fix

We did 4 pre purchase inspections for one client. He now drives a Taco!!
 
Wow - Thanks guys, lots of great info!


Electric Dyck,

Gorgeous pictures! I am very jealous. I really like the one looking out over the cobbles of what appears to be a river plain and the mountains in the background. Where is that?

That’s one heavy duty trillium frame. Two years ago we fabricated a new Boler frame after finding a crack. We kept it light though as we still want to be able to tow with a smaller vehicle if necessary and we figured the fiberglass wouldn’t cope well with any remote travels anyway.

Can I hear your story on the re-gearing? What tire size are you running and what did you re-gear to? How do you like it on the highways and hills?


Dweisger,

Thank you for the advice. I’d definitely expect to keep a close eye on general and preventative maintenance. As with you, I enjoy spending time with a wrench so that’s no worry.

I feel I should clarify. I have a vehicle that I will be keeping as a DD and highway ‘sprinter’ (in the loosest of terms haha) when needed. My work requires frequent travel to urban and remote areas in Western Canada, and I often have a choice in my method of travel. I’d like to have the cruiser so I can take some vacation time on the way up or when I’m settled there to get out and explore. If the cruiser needs to stay in Vancouver during a trip or two that’s no worry. Perhaps long term forecast will have some extended trips into USA/Mexico, but I wouldn't put money on those words.


Steven,

Thanks for the warning, I’ll be taking one for a pre purchase inspection once I get to that stage. As much as I feel I’ve done my research, I don’t think for a second I’ve got all the bases covered – and the cost is peanuts to the trouble I might encounter.
 
I must admit I do not tow any distance with my 35s and stock gears. I have a set of 31s I throw on the truck for any serious towing with hills, but as I have said my trailer is probably closer to 5000lbs all set up. I also have a G-Turbo Badboy set up that gives me some more power to the wheels and a front mount intercooler so I can keep my foot on the throttle longer than some and not build heat in the engine and can keep OD longer, as a result the larger tires are less of an issue. As long as your engine tune and set up lets you hold OD most of the time I find heat is not really a problem as my transmission stays below my coolant temperatures unless I am on something really serious. Locking out in 3rd would be nice, but its a significant cost to upgrade and a might do it someday.

Diesel mechanics seem to love to over fuel these trucks to get a little more power. You see them all over the place blowing black on light throttle, looks like fun but when you are towing and have to sustain load over fuel creates heat fast at low revs and you can get into a world of problems. When I installed my EMS1 that is when I realized how messed up my fuel system was.

I think to use the term crappy to describe the transmission on this truck is dishonest. There are likley poorly maintained and poorly setup trucks with transmission problems as a result, but to call the transmission crappy is seriously overstating it. If the truck is setup properly and driven properly, they are very tough. What transmission from the early 90s would can you really compare to it? There are none that I really would consider. There are better transmissions on newer trucks, but not of the same era. The transmission and parts in general on the truck are expensive and it will cost you money to maintain properly.

Its not and never will be a superduty. That said, I have done the Coquihalla towing 5000lbs and passed a newer diesel dodge hooked to 5th wheel that was broke down at the snow shed. He blew by me earlier in the day like I was standing still. Yes he was going up the hill as fast as a car, but I actually made it over the hill. I made sure to wave at him as I went on by, admittedly in the slow lane. The trucks are tortoises, but mine always gets there.
 
DW, I have to disagree with your statements about transmissions. Toyota used the A440 for 7 years, replaced it with the A442 for 5 years then dumped the entire line. Chevy used a very solid TH400 transmission that would pull stumps since 1964, the US Army still uses that transmission in the HMMWV (Humvee). The civilian version of that transmission became the 4L80 used from the mid 1990's, still in production today. These transmissions are workhorses with very little babying needed. I find guys broken down going up the snow shed hill are usually overheating, not the tranny, but motor. Guys throw Bully Dogs on their motors and think they are indestructible. My 80 series has an A343F which seems to be a very stout transmission, I don't see a lot of threads on Mud complaining about tranny problems, though Mr.T did add a factory external transmission cooler as well as the built-in rad cooler. I know they used the 343 right into the 100 series, not sure if it's still used today or if it was replaced. As you say, these trucks are tortoises, in the end I prefer the H55, one less thing to think about and I can rock up snow shed hill without a worry.
 
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