Pinion Preload - Diff Troubles. (1 Viewer)

[Spike Strip]

I pulled the front and Rear diff carriers - Front to check as P.O. said 4wd was not working, and rear to swap to a FF. I changed the pinion seals while they were out. Otherwise, everything the same.

The problem I'm having now is when I tighten the pinion nut to spec, the preload is way too tight. I can't even turn the flange by hand-- it's that tight. And I've only got the nut to the lowest spec, 181 ft/lbs.

tried to move flange on Front WITHOUT hubs locked and rear with one wheel off the ground.

There is endplay, and pinions seems to move fine when the nut is loose.

Do the crush sleeves need to be replaced? What could I have done?

 

[KLF]

Yup, the crush sleeves are now too short. It's supposed to be a one-time thing. If over tightened, then the preload will be too high and it can't "bounce back out" longer when you pull the nut back off. IMO you need to replace the crush sleeve(s).

Edit: just trying to come up with another solution. I'm thinking you could get some pinion shims, drop one in under the bearing, then tighten up the nut till you get the correct pre-load.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Careful, though. That pinion preload is critical and needs to be exactly in spec. You have over crushed the crush sleeve. I'd get a new one and have it torqued down to spec. That super high torque spec I think is for the older diffs that use a solid spacer for pinion preload.

I guess my point is not to do this casually if you want it to work.

 

[Spike Strip]

FSM said 181 - 300 ft/lbs ... It's a 5/85 FJ60 ... I only took it right to 181 ft/lbs.

I certainly want it right - I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong before I do the inevitable of pulling the diff's again (after complete axle rebuilds, front and rear!) ...

Any suggestions for trying to fix this without having to pull the axles and diffs again ?

I think the crush sleeve is used 11/84-1998

 

[ontherox]

If it has a crush sleeve then what is needed is preload not torque.The shims allowed you to just tighten without affecting preload,but with a crush sleeve you cant just go tightening stuff as it works totally different.Get new crush sleeves and preload instructions and go from there,if you get new ones and just go torquing again you will be in the same position....and yes i have been through this


If the fsm speaks of those torque readings then it must mean the torque required to begin crushing the sleeve,which sounds right.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

FSM said 181 - 300 ft/lbs ... It's a 5/85 FJ60 ... I only took it right to 181 ft/lbs.

I certainly want it right - I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong before I do the inevitable of pulling the diff's again (after complete axle rebuilds, front and rear!) ...

Any suggestions for trying to fix this without having to pull the axles and diffs again ?

I think the crush sleeve is used 11/84-1998

I think the crush sleeve started in 1979. It is possible to have a solid spacer installed on a newer differential, but that requires an expensive tear down and resetting the pinion. Our local diff guy makes solid spacers for us on his lathe out of d60 spacers.

The solid spacer/shim is a more desirable set-up and far easier to service afterward.

It may be possible to just replace the crush sleeve, but it will require a special puller to remove the bearing. I've never done that and am not sure.

Your best bet will be to pull the diff and take it to your local diff shop.

 

[Spike Strip]

Your best bet will be to pull the diff and take it to your local diff shop.

Ah, shizzle.... Was hoping to avoid that... At least I haven't put oil in 'em yet. Suppose I might as well do 4.11's while I'm at it.

There was a link I saw once for a guy who rebuilds Land Cruiser differentials - someone a lot of people recommended. I can't find it in search. Anybody know?

 

[Spike Strip]

Do you have to pull the 3rd to get to the crush sleeve, or just the seal and bearing? And will the bearing come out without a special puller ?

 

[ontherox]

No you shouldnt have to pull the 3rd member.I would only do that if the race needed to be removed.The crush sleeve operates off the bearing itself which is installed from the pinion side.After removal of the nut and seal you should be able to get the bearing off,though it may take some doing.

 

[Spike Strip]

Any trix to getting that front bearing out? I've tried super sticky magnets and tapping gently with a brass drift, but no budging... ?

Don't want to have to buy an SST.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Ah, shizzle.... Was hoping to avoid that... At least I haven't put oil in 'em yet. Suppose I might as well do 4.11's while I'm at it.

There was a link I saw once for a guy who rebuilds Land Cruiser differentials - someone a lot of people recommended. I can't find it in search. Anybody know?

It's a bummer for sure. I seem to remember that with the right puller, you can get out the pinion bearing without damaging it, then pull out the crush sleeve and just put it back together. But still, you'll need someone with the proper puller-so you're still pulling it out and going to the diff shop.

The local diff guy here is great. His shop is River City Differentials, and he's also a Toyota mini-truck guy and a first rate installer. Not really local to you, but I send him as much business as possible. Shawn "the gearman". His diffs are running in 3 of my 4 trucks (one is original) and all my friends have used him as well. even the Reno guys come here to have him do the work.

Avoid "West Coast Differentials" in my opinion.

 

[chesshircat]

Go over to the 79-95 toyota truck tech section on Mud, I have a Thread going on that has all the info you need. I have the same problem on a truck that a friend was being "nice" and replacing the pinion seal for me and over torgued the flange. The crush ring is your problem, you need preload not torgue. Its the "89 Ring & Pinion setup" thread. there is a link to a great website. You either need to have someone who knows what they are doing do it, or get the correct tools. I'm getting all the tools together to do mine myself.

 

[Spike Strip]

Awesome Chesshircat! That's the website I spent a day looking for but couldn't find! (zuk's) -- Great thread, too. Exactly what I need.

But I guess what I don't understand - and maybe this is because I don't understand the mechanism of the diff - is what you and other mean when you say what I need is preload, not torque...

Doesn't the pinion nut have to be torqued at least to a minimum spec?

edit: I think this was answered in the other thread --



S.

 

[chesshircat]

Spike, there is no torgue on the pinion, the correct depth of the pinion is achieved with the shim. The nut sets the preload on the bearings against the crush ring

you can move into my shop any time...I'd want to get out of LA too, I spent a month there a few years ago, couldn't wait to get home

 

[Spike Strip]

Ok, thanks Chess-- And as soon as I get this differential stuff fixed, I'll pack my bags!

S.