Oyaji's FJ60

[OyajiJon]

I picked up a rig in the Classifieds and it has coolant in the oil after 4 days of ownership and driving it twice. Apparently, I'm an idiot... Anyway, I have to get the head off and don't have a book. I can't afford to have the rig down long, so I have to get this fixed soon. Does anyone in NORCAL have a manual I can borrow to complete the job if I decide to tear it down myself?

I'm considering having it dragged to one of the "Cruiser Mechanics" on the list in the sticky post at the top of the forum. I spent more money than I thought I should to get a low mileage rig that I can drive without wrenching to get it running and am now so pissed that I don't want to work on it. I've got a call into the shop in Gilroy to see what they'll quote me for the repair.

Sorry for the rambling/venting. If someone has some advice to get my head level again, I'm all ears. Thanks in advance for any help you guys might provide.

 

[Michael Hanson]

See if you can get some members of your club to help, esp if there is food and drink. MIke

 

[saucebox]

Most all of the manuals can be downloaded. The paper ones are a little easier to work with, but the PDF versions work in a pinch. Run a search for 'download FSM'.

 

[scarydriver]

Attached is a PDF of the engine manual - at least what I have. It's more a list of part numbers, but all of the exploded views should help. Maybe there's something better with step-by-step instructions, but this should at least get you started. Good luck!

 

[OyajiJon]

No "club" here to ask, but it's all good. I've gotten a couple of pointers on email and from a local Toyota guy I know. I really appreciate all the help from you guys, and the pdfs you all provided will help.

I also heard that there is an oil cooler that is a point where oil and coolant can mix. I don't know how a hot engine condition would cause a failure there, but I'll check it out as recommended.

Thanks again,
Jon

 

[OyajiJon]

Pulled the plugs and drained the oil...

Ok, so I talked to Custom Cruisers in Gilroy today (I must say that the gentleman I talked to was VERY helpful), and the quoted price for the head job helped me get over my pissing and moaning real quick. I got inspired to get out there under the hood and just want to get this thing on the road. I'm done feeling butt-hurt over all of this.

I pulled all the plugs looking for the steam cleaning I usually find with blown head gaskets. There was none...all the plugs had the same color. Some had mineral type deposits on the plug base, but all looked like normal plugs with a fair number of miles on them.

I drained the sludge from the block. Nasty...

I took the cooler bolts loose, and the sludge was inside the cooler but seemed a little more wet. I put the drain plug and bolts back in finger tight, made a run to Sears to get some of the line clamps to pinch the coolant lines to the cooler and will pull the cooler out tomorrow so I can put pressure/vacuum to the coolant coil to test its integrity. I also plan to do a compression/leak down test to be sure that the head isn't cracked or the head gasket actually isn't compromised.

This whole thing is a little puzzling. I can't remember seeing a head or gasket go that dumped a gallon of coolant into the crank case without a hint of sweet tail pipe smoke. The truck never overheated to the point of blowing steam out of the rad cap or overflow tank like others on this board have posted in their experiences. I truly hope that I find a jacked up cooler. Please keep your fingers crossed for me, and feel free to post up any other thoughts.

Thanks for reading!

 

[sdbrassfield]

Do your leak down test to check the head gasket/head. It is very easy to bypass the oil cooler to get it back on the road waiting for parts if the head checks out...

 

[OyajiJon]

Anyone with a Leak Down Test HOW-TO?

Well, hope is not a plan, and the coolant passage on the oil cooler held ~ 60 PSI from the air compressor today, so I'm afraid that is not the problem. I picked up some cheap oil to put into the rig so I can take it to a shop and have a leak down test. I was confusing a simple compression test with the test I NEED to have done and don't have the gauges necessary to do it. I'll find a place to run the test and see what I find out. Thanks for the comments/help so far.

EDIT: The MATCO guy had the leak down test manifold, so I should have some numbers by Sunday. Does anyone have experience with this test and want to fill in a NEWB on how to do it? Thanks...

 

[RAMZ]

jon:
good luck with your problem, keep us up to date..
P.S.
I sent you a PM.

 

[2mbb]

you can download a copy of the 2F engine manual from here: Index of /Cruiser and M416 Manuals

 

[OyajiJon]

you can download a copy of the 2F engine manual from here: Index of /Cruiser and M416 Manuals

This is COOL! I happen to have an M416 sitting in the driveway, too! This is the first smile I've had on my face since coolant pissed into my crankcase! Thanks.

RAMZ: I PM'd you back.

 

[alaska60]

so......what happened?

 

[OyajiJon]

Well, I had kid commitments over the weekend, so I didn't get to work on the rig until today. At the recommendation of a friend, I went to Autozone and "rented" a block tester to try and see if I can get a positive exhaust gas test in the radiator. The fluid that came with the kit was too pale to read reliably, so I have to get some good fluid and test it again tomorrow. I don't think the leak down test will be necessary if I can get a positive test using this method since the only cause is head/gasket issues.

I put in some fresh cheap oil and cheap filter to flush out all the remaining Mocha Frappacino that I drained out of the oil pan the other day. I hope to have this thing diagnosed tomorrow. We'll see...

Thanks for asking.

EDIT: I also want to thank those of you who have emailed me/posted with all the manual info. I think I've got what I need for now and will post up again if I need anything else. Thanks!

 

[weak-link]

wow, you gotta be the only cruiser head in PB. I spent some years growing up on oak knoll off of Sloat. Hope your cruisers didn't live in the fog their hole life.

 

[OyajiJon]

Yeah, the neighbors tolerate me crawling around under my rigs. I'm fortunate that no one has called the owner of the house on me for the cr@p I've done in the driveway. Some of the old guys even stop and talk to me sometimes when they're out walking the dog. I notice them when I look out the front of the rig and see a pair of feet, roll around to see eyes looking down at me between the block and radiator, and hear "whatchya doin' down there?" There are some good people around here...

Anyway, I did a block test today using some good quality fluid, and there are no exhaust gasses in the coolant. What I don't know is if this is enough proof to say that there is NOT a cracked head or blown head gasket. I know that a positive result would absolutely confirm the problem, but I don't know if the opposite can be said.

So...no coolant leak in the oil cooler and no positive exhaust gasses in the coolant. Is there a potential spot in the intake manifold for coolant intrusion to the oil? Does anyone think I could have a bad spot in the block with only 135k on the engine? I'm puzzled and don't want to pull that head if I can't confirm that it is a problem...maybe I DO need to do that compression/leak down test. What I've read, though, is that the leak down is more effective diagnosing ring/valve leakage. I don't know...

Thanks for the continued help.

 

[rchalmers3]

It is possible to have a breach in the head gasket allowing either pressurized oil into the water passages or for water to leak into an oil drain back passage. Said leak may not include any contact with a combustion chamber, hence a negative result with the chemical tester.

Your reading is correct, leak down testing is another combustion sealing diagnostic. You may gain useful information from compression and leak down percentage measures, but they do not explain the source of the liquid mixing.

The only other place besides the head gasket where mixing can occur is in the head casting or in the block. Given that the castings on these motors is fairly robust, I would place my bet on the head gasket. If you do pull the head yourself, be sure to get an experienced eye on the gasket, to "read" it for signs of failure.

Rick

 

[OyajiJon]

So, I did a compression test with the following results for 1-2-3-4-5-6:
150-139-139-140-140-145

I seem to remember a 10% rule. Maybe I'm nuts...I'll get a coolant system pressure tester while the boy is at his soccer training this afternoon and try to run the test tonight.

The plugs still look the same (old) with some possible gap issues but no abnormal discoloration. I did notice what I think may be a "miss" at idle. Could be the plugs as it doesn't sound too pronounced. Plugs are cheap, so I'll pick up some of those, too. The overflow can was empty (about a quart of water), but that could've been sucked in to replace what I took out for the block test. The oil is clear, but I only put about 15 miles on it. I'll drive it to soccer practice to get a few more miles and see if there's any cloudiness to the oil this evening.

 

[OyajiJon]

Thanks for your input, Rick. It makes sense that there may be a leak between an oil galley and the water jacket. After it cools down from my 30+ mile drive that I just did, I'm going to check the coolant level and oil condition. The rig is not getting hot, nor is it blowing steam. I just have to keep watching the oil and coolant to see if there is sufficient reason to pull the head.

I also picked up some Bosch spark plugs. I CANNOT believe that NGK doesn't make a standard or iridium plug for this thing and that the "V-Power" plugs are all special order, and a state away, around here. Wow...I need to search and see what all you other guys are using.

 

[OyajiJon]

I did a cold cooling system pressure test following the tester directions and pressurized the system to about 16 psi (the preset test point on the gauge) for a 13 psi system. I dropped about 1/2 psi over a 2 minute time period and repeated the test with the same results 5 times. I started up the truck and let it warm up to normal operating temperature and charged the system to 16 psi again. The instructions said that, if there was a combustion chamber leak, there would be a jumping gauge. There wasn't, and I dropped about 1/2 psi over a 4 minute period with the truck warm. I think this indicates that I have a slow leak between the water jacket and oil galley at the head since I can't find any external leaks. It also makes sense that the leak would slow when warm since the metal of the block and head are expanding and increasing clamping pressure on the gasket.

Does my reasoning make sense? I wonder if I can retorque the head and try to test it again. Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[chitown40]

I'll chime in on spark plugs -- go OEM fromt he dealer. Less than $2 apiece and they work great. Return the bosch plugs.

You've done all the tests without and conclusive answers. For piece of mind and longevity, you might just want to pull the head and see what you find.