Orion gear fix options

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CruiserMax

CruiserMax

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Apr 16, 2004
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I spoke to Advance Adapters to day to talk about my issues and options with the Orion tcase. For those that don't know, the Orion is a heavy duty steel LC transfer case with 4:1 gearing. Some of them have one bad side effect: they pop out of gear into neutral which is bad thing when going down steep hills! Part of the problem is the design on the the big gear and the fact that the kit called upon owners to use their existing shift stuff from the stock LC case.

Anyway the options are:

1) I send them the big gear and they machine it to tighter specs and they send it back along with a new replacement shifter kit. This is supposed to end the problem once and for all. The upside is that AA does this for free. The downside is that I have to tear the tcase apart to send them the big gear and then put the case back together again. This requires some work and experience that I just do not have. You also have to be right on with the preload etc which requires fancy gauges etc. As the Orion is worth a lot of $$$ I do not want to screw this up.

2) I send AA the entire case and they do all the work, machine the gear, add the new linkage kit and put it all back together again. I would have to pay shipping both ways and 1-2 hours of labor. AA has the trained, experienced techs that do this work all day long.

I am thinking of going with option 2 as all I have to do is unbolt the Orion, send it to them and bolt it back on again once the work is done. They will send me a fancy shipping container for free as well.

Cheers,

Max
 
Steve, I am glad to hear you think so. I don't mind tackling jobs on my cruisers. This is just one thing I have never done. I also don't have the tools. It would be cool to do this on my own, save the money, learn stuff and be happy.

Then there is the thought of my lack of experience causing some kind of failure way out on some inaccessible trail. I do take this 40 to some hard to get places. Also, the Orion is an expensive item and I would feel better about a pro doing the work...

Max
 
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Max,

I just had an orion built by AA a few months ago. I took apart my old t-case and sent them all the parts that they requested. Most of those old part were no good and we ended up replacing them. I feel that I took the safe route and let the pros at AA do the build. I figure if there are any problems they will stand behind it better if they put it together. I have not installed it yet but will let you all know how it works once it is up and running.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Ironmanfj45 said:
Max,

I just had an orion built by AA a few months ago. I took apart my old t-case and sent them all the parts that they requested. Most of those old part were no good and we ended up replacing them. I feel that I took the safe route and let the pros at AA do the build. I figure if there are any problems they will stand behind it better if they put it together. I have not installed it yet but will let you all know how it works once it is up and running.

Cheers,

Jim
Click to expand...

Good to hear Jim. I know there has been tons of info, debate, etc on this Orion issue. When talking to AA today I got the impression that they are VERY aware of the problem that folks have been having.

I would be into learning this stuff if I were rebuilding a cheap stock case. To my mind it makes sense to have AA do the machine work and put it all back togther with the proper shift parts. This echos your point as well.

Still, I think AA made an error in judgement when they origionally offered the Orion as a kit. They should have charged more and built it properly and not asked users to canabalize shifter components. I bet the subsequent rumblings, bad word of mouth and reconditioning the the Orions require have cost AA dearly.

I hope that AA will deliver on thier 1-2 week turn around...

Max
 
CruiserMax said:
Then there is the thought of my lack of experience causing some kind of failure way out on some inaccessible trail. I do take this 40 to some hard to get places. ...

Max
Click to expand...


The lack of experience issue cuts both ways: If you lack the experience, then if it breaks out on the trail, you won't know how to fix it and AA won't come get it. If you wheel your truck in hard to reach places, the more you know about fixing it the better. Of course, you could also wheel with someone who does know how to fix it. :D
 
True. I have thought of this. I have had trail failures in the past and have always figured out a way of getting to the pavement again. I usually wheel with 3-8 guys and collectively we do OK for trail repairs. I don't think anyone really has that much experience in setting gears and putting tcases together though.

I would like to do the work but in this case I think I will let the pros get it right this time. It seems to me that the Orion needs pretty tight tolerances in the setup.

Max
 
Pin_Head said:
The lack of experience issue cuts both ways: If you lack the experience, then if it breaks out on the trail, you won't know how to fix it and AA won't come get it. If you wheel your truck in hard to reach places, the more you know about fixing it the better. Of course, you could also wheel with someone who does know how to fix it. :D
Click to expand...

I completely agree with Charlie on this. The transfer case is dead simple, and would not be a bad place to start, in terms of really learning your drive train. I also like the idea of sending the whole thing to AA. So, why not just pull the case yourself, put it in a box and eat the shipping? You'll learn something, they'll do the hard technical work, and in the end, everyone is happy. Cost: 2 half days of work, and $100 shipping bill.

Question though...As of now, if you order an Orion, does it still have any issues with popping out of gear or anything else. ie, is it plug and play? Mark A had one at Rubicon that he had to shift with a vice grip under the truck. I thought that was pretty lame. I have been hanging on to my old 4 speed nose cone for the day I get an Orion.
 
Rebuilding the transfer case is a 2 bannana job and the only fancy gauge you need to set the preload is a fish scale. If the preload is OK now, it is very likely that it won't change when you put it back together, but it is always a good idea to check.
 
Pin_Head said:
Rebuilding the transfer case is a 2 bannana job and the only fancy gauge you need to set the preload is a fish scale. If the preload is OK now, it is very likely that it won't change when you put it back together, but it is always a good idea to check.
Click to expand...
If you plan on doing much mechanical work a torque wrench is a good investment and makes setting the preload much easier.
IIRC a beam type torque wrench from Sears runs around $40.
You might also want a set of feeler guages and a FSM to check the tolerences inside the case. Again items which you will need eventually if you do much wrok on a car. I agree that tearing the case down and putting it back together is pretty straight forward.
 
I'll have to call them, maybe. I have unit #50 and had put the latest "fix" of machined thrust washers and new detent spring and screw/bolt. I haven't driven it yet. Is the large gear problem something new? :eek: :rolleyes:
 
I see nothing wrong with the Orion and I would buy another one without hesitating. It is true that there were "neutral" issues in the beginning but AA stepped up and took care of everything. They could have handled the situation much differently. I am glad they were involved and I enjoyed working with them.
 
As far as I can tell AA will machine a small amount off the main gear. They also offer a new packet of goodies to address the shift collar/linkage components. My Orion is #067.

To me its a balance of choosing between extra expense(shipping the case to AA) or effort(removing the gear and putting it all back together and checking the specs etc myself.) I like the idea of learning how to do it but I think I will feel more comfortable having AA professionals go over the entire thing, check for existing wear, do their updated gear machining and add all the new shift stuff they now offer, and sew it all back together.

I, like many others purchased the Orion because it was billed as being this easy, super strong, 4:1, "bomb proof" transfer case. Then it started popping out of gear on dangerous downhill sections on the trail. The first time this happened I almost shat myself. I then used like 8 marine grade bungee cords to keep the thing in 4-low. How well AA has reacted to this whole episode is a glass half full - half empty situation. All I want is peace of mind when I am out on a steep mountain edge that the bloody thing will stay in gear! I simply want to enjoy wheeling my cruiser without wondering how well I used a fish scale while putting this $1500 transfer case back together.

Max
 
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Hopefully this will make you feel better. My Orion used to pop into neutral before the fix. This is after the fix at Cruise Moab 2006. No worries :)
and...the pic doesn't do it justice. That is one steep hill!

I have to thank Poser as well, he walked me through most of it and even offered to help out. :beer:
DSC00253.webp
 
I have seen that photo before( is that your 40 or are you the one taking the photo?)After all this I can't wait to have that sense of confidence in my gearing. I have wheeled with the Orion: I really dig the gearing. It seems the perfect match with the H41 I have. To me that photo represents "the promised land..."

Cheers,

Max
 
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