2009 Toyota Land Cruiser Wheel Alignement and Kingpin Angle / Steering Inclination
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There's more to this. Now that there's generally a better grasp of how offset impacts scrub radius, and resulting symptoms. To complicate things...
Lift effects the Kingpin Inclination Angle (KPI). Stock is ~13 degrees. When lifted, this can change to something closer to ~10-11 degrees, depending on the amount of lift and UCA adjustment. In a dual wishbone suspension, the upper and lower arms are unequal length. Hence they follow a different arc (green) that changes the KPI through its stroke.
Result - with more lift, generally need to bias towards more offset (not less). For example, take a 33"" spec diameter tire at stock ride height, which wants something like 45mm offset. Lift say 2.5", and ideal may be closer to 50mm.
Another factor can be alignment. Camber has a big impact to the effective centerline of the tire. Particularly a wider tire. Most alignments have the camber just square or positive on the LC. LX has square or just negative. Difference likely to due to amount of brake dive from the suspension, where AHC has an anti-dive mechanism, and the differing alignment may be to maximize braking traction.
Both factors are honestly less impactful, but since we're talking about the tech of it. Though they could be used as tools too. For example, more negative camber could be used to adjust an aggressive offset wheel to handle better from a scrub radius perspective. Better turn in, handling, and minimize the tire sidewall from rolling over as much.
View attachment 2914302
AFAIK, the TRD forged accessory wheels fitted with LT285/70R17 (C) ATs is the only optional offering. LXs had a forged 22” wheel as well, not sure of tire size on that. As it pertains to offset, the TRD wheels have 50mm positive offset.
It was an option here. It also came on the TRD Sport Tundras with the superchargers.I thought that 22” was a knockoff. Whered they sell that? Crazy fitment lol
Bringing this thread back up to the top as there's offset and scrub radius questions in other threads of late. The compromises and symptoms to aggressive offsets I think are clear. Understanding why might be a bit more difficult.
View attachment 3610172
Re-using this picture, the zero scrub radius point at the tire contact patch is where the tire pivots as it steers. Besides that simple fact, this magical point has other qualities. Imagine the black line to be a piano hinge. One takeaway is that as you push on the spine of the hinge, the forces don't result in a torque or steering force. The further away from the spine or pivot that you apply that force, and there starts to be a lever arm creating steering forces.
That has consequence to the steering rack. As the front tires hit obstacles, normally it would just be absorbed by that magic pivot point which is the suspension kingpin structure. With more wheel offset providing a lever arm, those forces now have to be absorbed to a degree by the steering rack. And also to the drivers hand. This is why with poor offsets that there begins to be more feedback and undesirable push/pull when hitting uneven terrain, braking, or trying to put down power.
There are longer term consequences too. As the steering rack is absorbing more degree of forces, it is subject to increased wear and tear. The internal hydraulic pressures are higher too. This maybe why we're starting to see some racks in higher mileage wear out the power steering pump and develop leaks in the high pressure lines. Yes, wheeling and rock crawling puts more load on the steering so that's definitely a part of increased wear, but that's also compounded by aggressive offsets.
I get using low offsets for stance. That could be equally achieved with wide tires that push the outside of the tire just as far, while providing balance with more rubber on the other side of the zero scrub radius line to neutralize scrub radius impacts.
Bros gotta DozeWhich makes you wonder why a huge amount of the aftermarket 5x150 wheels out there are like +10 or +0. I really struggled to find a 17" wheel that was anything more positive than +25. Method has a few +35's and the Evo Corses usually seem to be +40. Other than that you are at <=+25.
@TeCKis300 would a change in tire diameter (larger) also result in a change in scrub radius?
Would that also need to be reflected in the choice of wheel offset to allow the red and black lines to meet at the pavement surface as intended?
I made this a while ago when i was making a RCTIP table in excel. The numbers can vary based on what assumptions you make about how Toyota spec'd the scrub radius. I added the "Proposed Tires" column, i assume that you pulled the manufacturer spec on a KO2 for the Rock Warrior size and whatever the factory tire is for a LX., since your numbers don't match up to what the calculated size of a 285/70R17 (32.71") and 285/50R20 (31.22"). A Landcruiser spec'd stock tire (31.46") is slightly different than a LX one as well, so you could throw that in. So here's a very specific "looking" table, but really you can move the numbers around quite a bit based on small changes in assumptions. That's the problem with extrapolation.
Calculated Size Proposed Tires Average Offset Spacer 31.22 31.6 31.41 60 0 31.369 31.7 31.5345 59 1 31.518 31.8 31.659 58 2 31.667 31.9 31.7835 57 3 31.816 32 31.908 56 4 31.965 32.1 32.0325 55 5 32.114 32.2 32.157 54 6 32.263 32.3 32.2815 53 7 32.412 32.4 32.406 52 8 32.561 32.5 32.5305 51 9 32.71 32.6 32.655 50 10 32.859 32.7 32.7795 49 11 33.008 32.8 32.904 48 12 33.157 32.9 33.0285 47 13 33.306 33 33.153 46 14 33.455 33.1 33.2775 45 15 33.604 33.2 33.402 44 16 33.753 33.3 33.5265 43 17 33.902 33.4 33.651 42 18 34.051 33.5 33.7755 41 19 34.2 33.6 33.9 40 20 34.349 33.7 34.0245 39 21 34.498 33.8 34.149 38 22 34.647 33.9 34.2735 37 23 34.796 34 34.398 36 24 34.945 34.1 34.5225 35 25 35.094 34.2 34.647 34 26 35.243 34.3 34.7715 33 27 35.392 34.4 34.896 32 28 35.541 34.5 35.0205 31 29 35.69 34.6 35.145 30 30 35.839 34.7 35.2695 29 31 35.988 34.8 35.394 28 32 36.137 34.9 35.5185 27 33 36.286 35 35.643 26 34 36.435 35.1 35.7675 25 35 36.584 35.2 35.892 24 36 36.733 35.3 36.0165 23 37 36.882 35.4 36.141 22 38 37.031 35.5 36.2655 21 39 37.18 35.6 36.39 20 40 37.329 35.7 36.5145 19 41 37.478 35.8 36.639 18 42 37.627 35.9 36.7635 17 43 37.776 36 36.888 16 44 37.925 36.1 37.0125 15 45 38.074 36.2 37.137 14 46 38.223 36.3 37.2615 13 47 38.372 36.4 37.386 12 48 38.521 36.5 37.5105 11 49 38.67 36.6 37.635 10 50
Bringing this thread back up to the top as there's offset and scrub radius questions in other threads of late. The compromises and symptoms to aggressive offsets I think are clear. Understanding why might be a bit more difficult.