Old Man Emu Lift + Acceleration Vibration (1 Viewer)

[Techsan]

Hi everyone - I recently had a load of work done on my ‘06 LC at 4 Wheel Parts in Dallas and have noticed the (1) ride is rough, (2) there is a vibration when accelerating between 30-40 mph and (3) it feels like I’ve lost some power.

Here’s what I had done recently:
- added front ARB Bull bumper w wench
- 2”/1.5” OME lift kit w new shocks and torsion bars
- new Method wheels (same all terrain tires
- replaced rear differential fluid

Has anyone else experienced the issues I mentioned or do you have an idea what it could be? I want to have an idea how hard to press 4 Wheel Parts or understand if I have another issue. When I first told 4WP the LC was pulling left I was told that’s because there’s a natural pitch on the road, so I expect I’ll get a similar BS response if I point the finger at them on this.

Thanks for your help!

 

[AlpineAccess]

If you're in the right lane on a center-crowned road and still drifting left they need to fix the alignment.

The old man emu lift kit has very stiff shocks. It is one of the #1 complaints on this forum in terms of lifts. I didn't mind it, but looking at your vehicle the front end looks like they cranked the torsion bars up too much. Measure from the center of the hub to the wheel arch. It should be no more than 22". At 22" your ride quality will be poor IMO, at 21" its ok, at 20 its going to be good.

They probably overinflated the tires as well. Do a chalk test to determine the tire pressure you need for even wear.

The vibration is likely because they jacked the front end up too much and didn't put in a diff drop. You can get a diff drop to get the CV axles leveled out and improve the angles, or you can lower the torsion bars as well.

There should be a 1" rake from the rear to the front using the measurements from hub to wheel arch note mentioned before to maintain driving characteristics.

It looks like you did not do upper adjustable control arms, which may mean (with the lift height they threw on there) that your caster is also out of spec.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

When I first told 4WP the LC was pulling left I was told that’s because there’s a natural pitch on the road

It should pull right, not left, because roads are crowned in the middle and slope outwards to drain water.

(1) ride is rough, (2) there is a vibration when accelerating between 30-40 mph

Based on your photo, it appears that you might not have any rake (need a side photo to confirm). If so, most of your issues are a consequence of the front end being lifted too high.

 

[Techsan]

It should pull right, not left, because roads are crowned in the middle and slope outwards to drain water.


Based on your photo, it appears that you might not have any rake (need a side photo to confirm). If so, most of your issues are a consequence of the front end being lifted too high.

Agreed on the pulling, that's why I didn't engage in disputing the sales reps perspective...clearly it was completely made up.

 

[Techsan]

If you're in the right lane on a center-crowned road and still drifting left they need to fix the alignment.

The old man emu lift kit has very stiff shocks. It is one of the #1 complaints on this forum in terms of lifts. I didn't mind it, but looking at your vehicle the front end looks like they cranked the torsion bars up too much. Measure from the center of the hub to the wheel arch. It should be no more than 22". At 22" your ride quality will be poor IMO, at 21" its ok, at 20 its going to be good.

They probably overinflated the tires as well. Do a chalk test to determine the tire pressure you need for even wear.

The vibration is likely because they jacked the front end up too much and didn't put in a diff drop. You can get a diff drop to get the CV axles leveled out and improve the angles, or you can lower the torsion bars as well.

There should be a 1" rake from the rear to the front using the measurements from hub to wheel arch note mentioned before to maintain driving characteristics.

It looks like you did not do upper adjustable control arms, which may mean (with the lift height they threw on there) that your caster is also out of spec.

This is very helpful. Thanks for your response. I attached a full list of all the parts i had installed. I know this sounds bad, but i'm worried they (1) didn't install everything as listed and/or (2) didn't configure the equipment (e.g., torsion bars) properly based on the feedback here. I'm not a handy car guy so it's tough for me to tell. Maybe i take it to a mechanic to verify?

Also, based on the list below, do you still think your initial thoughts apply? Thanks again!!

 

[Techsan]

If you're in the right lane on a center-crowned road and still drifting left they need to fix the alignment.

The old man emu lift kit has very stiff shocks. It is one of the #1 complaints on this forum in terms of lifts. I didn't mind it, but looking at your vehicle the front end looks like they cranked the torsion bars up too much. Measure from the center of the hub to the wheel arch. It should be no more than 22". At 22" your ride quality will be poor IMO, at 21" its ok, at 20 its going to be good.

They probably overinflated the tires as well. Do a chalk test to determine the tire pressure you need for even wear.

The vibration is likely because they jacked the front end up too much and didn't put in a diff drop. You can get a diff drop to get the CV axles leveled out and improve the angles, or you can lower the torsion bars as well.

There should be a 1" rake from the rear to the front using the measurements from hub to wheel arch note mentioned before to maintain driving characteristics.

It looks like you did not do upper adjustable control arms, which may mean (with the lift height they threw on there) that your caster is also out of spec.

I just posted the equipment installed because you have me thinking the lift kit wasn't installed properly. if we drop the body 1-2" then i'd expect we're back to where we were without the lift. am i missing something?

 

[RobbyBoy32]

I just posted the equipment installed because you have me thinking the lift kit wasn't installed properly. if we drop the body 1-2" then i'd expect we're back to where we were without the lift. am i missing something?

With the lift install, there is variability in the front height, whereas the rear height is pretty set as determined by the springs you chose. When people tell you to lower the front(uncrank the torsion bar bolts a little), that adjustment only lowers the front a little bit. When they mention rake, it means the front usually sits lower than the rear, even from the factory the height difference is set up like this. That makes the ride quality better. All of this stuff is in the FAQ on 100 series cruisers. Just go to the installer and have them crank down the front a little bit, and bring them a printout of the lift section in the FAQ. It should make sense to any mechanic, and they will have the tools to lift the truck, remove the front wheels, and uncrank the torsion bolts a bit to adjust the front to rear height, measuring from hub to fender.

 

[AlpineAccess]

This is very helpful. Thanks for your response. I attached a full list of all the parts i had installed. I know this sounds bad, but i'm worried they (1) didn't install everything as listed and/or (2) didn't configure the equipment (e.g., torsion bars) properly based on the feedback here. I'm not a handy car guy so it's tough for me to tell. Maybe i take it to a mechanic to verify?

Also, based on the list below, do you still think your initial thoughts apply? Thanks again!!

View attachment 2928618

It looks like they installed everything you ordered, but some of this stuff raises questions. They wouldn't know to do this differently because they aren't cruiser guys and this is cruiser specific stuff, but I'm interested in the following:

1. Where is the alignment sheet for your vehicle? 4WP provides an alignment print out of the configuration (showing camber, caster, toe, etc.).
2. It looks like they need to lower the front of the vehicle using the torsion bar adjustments. What is the measurement between the center of the wheel and the wheel arch on the body panel? It is going to be somewhere between 20 and 23 inches, but should be close to 20 and no more than 22 for your configuration.
3. With the front lifted at all over stock (anything over 19 inches in the measurement detailed above) you will have changed the angles of the CV shafts. You may need to add a differential drop (which returns the CV shaft angles closer to the factory setup) to get rid of vibration from them.

I think the first step is to lower the front end an inch or so to get the proper rake. Then get their alignment sheet and make sure its within spec. Then see if the vibration goes away (it may). Once that is done, if the ride quality is still very poor, its likely that its just the Old Man Emu shocks that are causing a rough ride. You may consider changing them.

If they lower the front end that should help some with the vibration.

 

[trdcorolla]

It looks like they installed everything you ordered, but some of this stuff raises questions. They wouldn't know to do this differently because they aren't cruiser guys and this is cruiser specific stuff, but I'm interested in the following:

1. Where is the alignment sheet for your vehicle? 4WP provides an alignment print out of the configuration (showing camber, caster, toe, etc.).
2. It looks like they need to lower the front of the vehicle using the torsion bar adjustments. What is the measurement between the center of the wheel and the wheel arch on the body panel? It is going to be somewhere between 20 and 23 inches, but should be close to 20 and no more than 22 for your configuration.
3. With the front lifted at all over stock (anything over 19 inches in the measurement detailed above) you will have changed the angles of the CV shafts. You may need to add a differential drop (which returns the CV shaft angles closer to the factory setup) to get rid of vibration from them.

I think the first step is to lower the front end an inch or so to get the proper rake. Then get their alignment sheet and make sure its within spec. Then see if the vibration goes away (it may). Once that is done, if the ride quality is still very poor, its likely that its just the Old Man Emu shocks that are causing a rough ride. You may consider changing them.

If they lower the front end that should help some with the vibration.

Isn't the concensous here on mud that the factory front fender to center hub height is somewhere between 19.5 to 19.75"?

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Isn't the concensous here on mud that the factory front fender to center hub height is somewhere between 19.5 to 19.75"?

IIRC, that’s for AHC-equipped 100s in “N” mode. Non-AHC 100s stock measurement is 10-15mm lower, or roughly 0.5” lower. But all of that is irrelevant. Keep the front below 21.5” center of hub to fender.

 

[Techsan]

IIRC, that’s for AHC-equipped 100s in “N” mode. Non-AHC 100s stock measurement is 10-15mm lower, or roughly 0.5” lower. But all of that is irrelevant. Keep the front below 21.5” center of hub to fender.

I measured and it's right at 21.5". I'm going to take it over to the TX Cruiser Man Mike at Dajda's in North Richland Hills to have him take a look. The ride is poor and the guys at 4WP are a mess to work with as I can't get a straight answer out of them.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

The ride is poor and the guys at 4WP are a mess to work with as I can't get a straight answer out of them.

They’re used to working on Jeeps and trucks. They prob don’t know anything about torsion bar suspension…

 

[crowdaddy911]

I had a 2.5 old man Emu lift on my 80 series yes a bit stiff but loved it. I wanted to upgrade my Hundy with a 1.5 lift but dont want the over stiff ride that may come with that being said what are you feel besides ole man emu in that realm? Besides Ole Man help me Obi Wan your my only hope

 

[Noregrets777]

Thanks for posting. I have a MY2000 since new, all stock. Was considering doing 18inch wheels and a slight lift, mainly for the appearance, I have a farm with light off-roading. Considered 4wp, they are nice sales guys but my sense is they aren’t knowledgeable about cruisers. . Suggestions on where to get advice and get this done in Atlanta area or broader southeast US.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Thanks for posting. I have a MY2000 since new, all stock. Was considering doing 18inch wheels and a slight lift, mainly for the appearance, I have a farm with light off-roading. Considered 4wp, they are nice sales guys but my sense is they aren’t knowledgeable about cruisers. . Suggestions on where to get advice and get this done in Atlanta area or broader southeast US.

ACC Garage

www.accgarage.com

Fulton Georgia Land Cruiser Shop.

 

[Noregrets777]

Thank you

 

[Techsan]

It looks like they installed everything you ordered, but some of this stuff raises questions. They wouldn't know to do this differently because they aren't cruiser guys and this is cruiser specific stuff, but I'm interested in the following:

1. Where is the alignment sheet for your vehicle? 4WP provides an alignment print out of the configuration (showing camber, caster, toe, etc.).
2. It looks like they need to lower the front of the vehicle using the torsion bar adjustments. What is the measurement between the center of the wheel and the wheel arch on the body panel? It is going to be somewhere between 20 and 23 inches, but should be close to 20 and no more than 22 for your configuration.
3. With the front lifted at all over stock (anything over 19 inches in the measurement detailed above) you will have changed the angles of the CV shafts. You may need to add a differential drop (which returns the CV shaft angles closer to the factory setup) to get rid of vibration from them.

I think the first step is to lower the front end an inch or so to get the proper rake. Then get their alignment sheet and make sure its within spec. Then see if the vibration goes away (it may). Once that is done, if the ride quality is still very poor, its likely that its just the Old Man Emu shocks that are causing a rough ride. You may consider changing them.

If they lower the front end that should help some with the vibration.

After several failed attempts via phone and e-mail to get the alignment sheet, I finally went by 4WP to get it. The specs are foreign to me! Any help is much appreciated!

Thank you all

 

[Techsan]

Ba

Thanks for posting. I have a MY2000 since new, all stock. Was considering doing 18inch wheels and a slight lift, mainly for the appearance, I have a farm with light off-roading. Considered 4wp, they are nice sales guys but my sense is they aren’t knowledgeable about cruisers. . Suggestions on where to get advice and get this done in Atlanta area or broader southeast US.

Based on my experience I’d stay away from 4WP. They’ve been difficult to get straight answers from since the work was performed and I paid in full. For example, they broke TPMS devices and asked me to get it repaired at Discount Tire but aren’t forthright in how they’ll reimburse me. Aside from the cost, it’s a time suck to reconcile the list of outstanding issues.

 

[AlpineAccess]

View attachment 2947353
After several failed attempts via phone and e-mail to get the alignment sheet, I finally went by 4WP to get it. The specs are foreign to me! Any help is much appreciated!

Thank you all

Camber is fine, toe is fine, Caster is out of even the factory specs and they should address it. They have a 30 day policy on alignments, so I'd give them a shot to fix it. They didn't send the print out because they didn't properly align your vehicle and didn't want you to know.

They should be able to get quite a bit of caster even with the stock arms if they don't have the torsion bars maxed and droop is good. I'd try to 2*+ from stock arms if possible using the eccentrics.

If you have adjustable upper control arms they should get caster dialed in to factory range, specifically the upper end of factory. My current specs are 2.5-3* of caster and I would be happy with even a little more, 3* to 3.5*.

 

[Manhattan]

Until you get the rake right, you won't know if the OME springs are the/a cause of the rough ride. We put IronMan springs, TBs, shocks, and SPC uppers control arms in my '06 and it rode like crap. Then, we dialed the front down and it was like butter.

The challenge you've got is that 4WP is really good and really knows their stuff... as long as it's a Jeep, Dodge, Ford... So, you're going to tell them "The guys online said... " and they're going to stop listening.

I would do two things:
1. Have a dif' drop installed - they're not expensive
2. Dial the rake down

Then assess the ride on your way to have the alignment sorted out... again.

It'd be easy to say you went to the wrong shop. But, the guys at 4WP should be busy enough putting lift blocks and 20" wheels on full size trucks to be honest enough to send you to a shop better equipped to work on a Land Cruiser.