Octane Adjustments

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Does anybody out there know what the physical changes were in the engines or controls that enabled the newer motor to run smooth on low octane?

I have a 2000 LC and a '05 4Runner with the same motor, but the 4Runner gets far better mileage (probably due to weight and tranny), but also runs well on low octane. When I run low octane in the LC my gas mileage and performance suffer.

If there is a list of components that accomplishes the change I am interested - ECU, plugs, etc. What is the Toyo magic?

Ed
 
I am pretty sure that the only thing changed was the rated HP listed in the ads.

I haven't noticed any performance decrease w/ 85 octane but I drive at ~7000 feet asl so that could influence things.
 
As "smart" as these engine CPU's are these days it would not surprise me that the 4Runner's programming is more gentile due to the reduction in weight.

With that weight on the 100 the CPU retards the timing after 50 or so miles on regular. My 100 runs like poop on reg. Great on premium. I can tell and easily.
 
had a 99 LC but always used 91 octane, had a 2004 V8 runner but always ran 87 octane. Now I have a 2004 LX but I always run 91 so I'm not much help for real world experience, but I understand the newer LC/LX have a different CPU that allows them to run on 87 but with poppy performance.
 
Doesn't the 05 4r also have VVTI? That would make a big preformance difference.
 
what is WTI?

I am figuring the engine is essentially the same with some different operational electronics which resulted in different octane tolerance and hp. The $600,000 question is what was changed?

I could be wrong and they changed the injection system completely, but I was hoping some of you experts would know.

Ed
 
what is WTI?

I am figuring the engine is essentially the same with some different operational electronics which resulted in different octane tolerance and hp. The $600,000 question is what was changed?

I could be wrong and they changed the injection system completely, but I was hoping some of you experts would know.

Ed

Were talkin VVTi, varible valve timing with intelligents. It gets more out of the engine at all the different rpm levels.
 
what is WTI?

I am figuring the engine is essentially the same with some different operational electronics which resulted in different octane tolerance and hp. The $600,000 question is what was changed?

I could be wrong and they changed the injection system completely, but I was hoping some of you experts would know.

Ed

It's more than just an electronic programming change. Variable Valve Timing-Intelligence
 
The VVTi doesn't have anything to do with the engines ability to use 87 octane. I know my 99 needed 91 octane but the 2004 can get along with 87. But why use 87 octane, its not that much of a $$ savings. If anyone that bought a LC/LX cared they would be driving something else.
 
The VVTi doesn't have anything to do with the engines ability to use 87 octane. I know my 99 needed 91 octane but the 2004 can get along with 87. But why use 87 octane, its not that much of a $$ savings. If anyone that bought a LC/LX cared they would be driving something else.

Well, although I did not purchase this vehicle based on gas mileage, I am not interested in throwing my money away either. At about $0.20 per gallon difference it adds up (this is my daily driver). As I plan to keep this vehicle until it can go no more, I believe a one-time investment in parts that save me at the pump will be offset. This also provides the engine more flexibility in operating on poor quality fuel sources in remote locations. My question is what are those parts?
 
Well, although I did not purchase this vehicle based on gas mileage, I am not interested in throwing my money away either. At about $0.20 per gallon difference it adds up (this is my daily driver). As I plan to keep this vehicle until it can go no more, I believe a one-time investment in parts that save me at the pump will be offset. This also provides the engine more flexibility in operating on poor quality fuel sources in remote locations. My question is what are those parts?

No new parts to buy. Just use the 87 octane. Listen for pinging if you don't hear pinging your OK, if you do then try the mid-grade and do the samething. I would suggest you check your mpg using 91 octane over a route that you normally drive and then do the samething using 87 octane. Do this by hand, miles driven versus gallons used. If you lose mpg with the 87 octane it might not be saving you much money. Good luck. You might also do a search regarding this issue. There has been several threads with owners debating mpg and performance and model year and octane.

PS- found this old post it might help you understand whats up and what you want to burn in your 100 series.

87 vs. 89 vs. 91 vs. 93 octanes... What's the difference???

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i posted this in another forum that i frequent, but thought some of you may find some value in this since your 100's "require" 93, but can run on 87. (oh, and as far as my credibility is concerned - i'm a chemical engineer by degree...)

Lesson in Octane

they will burn the same. no assertainable difference in carbon buildup within the same brands. however, compare shell or chevron to an off brand and you can and will have more buildup w/ the off brand b/c they tend to have less detergents and poorer quality detergents in them.

now as far as power goes, you probably won't feel the difference. if the engine was meant to run at it's optimum on 93 octane and you put 87 in it, then it will simply retard the timing enough to prevent detonation. in doing so, you loose some power, but typically less than 3 or 4%. that's about 6-8hp and for the everyday driver, you'll never feel the difference. however, you will more than likely have a decrease in your efficiency (MPG's) if you drop from a recommended 93 down to 87 due to the engine retarding the timing. this is more noticeable on automatics than on manual transmission equipped vehicles due to the downshifting at cruising speeds from the loss of the top end power.

for fun, let's walk through a quick & dirty calculation with some assumptions:

15 gallon use of fuel. 93 octane is $2.50 and 87 is $2.30 per gallon. you normally get 17MPG with 93, but only 16MPG with 87. which grade is more economical to use?

for 93 octane:
15 gallons * 17 MPG = 255 miles, 15 gallons * $2.50 = $37.50 to fill up
255 miles / $37.50 = 6.8 miles per dollar -OR- 14.71 cents per mile

now for 87 octane:
15 gallons * 16 MPG = 240 miles, 15 gallons * $2.30 = $34.50 to fill up
240 miles / $34.50 = 6.96 miles per dollar -OR- 14.38 cents per mile

add that up for somebody who drives 20k miles per year, and the difference is an whopping $66 per YEAR...


the reason that they require 93 is due to the high compression ratio of the engine. higher ratios means that during the compression cycle, the piston moves in the upward direction so far that the air inside is compressed. compression causes heat, and that heat can cause premature detonation of the fuel without the spark plug ever firing. this is detonation. the engine has a knock sensor and will detect pre-detonation conditions and will adjust engine timing accordingly to compensate.

also, if you have an older engine, you're more likely to get pinging (detonation). why is that? it's because older engines typically have some carbon buildup on the valves and on the piston head. those carbon deposits can get heated to very high temperatures while the engine is running and will actually glow (think of charcoal in a grill). those glowing embers will then ignite the fuel and cause detonation. using something like BG44K or Seafoam on a regular basis will remove the carbon deposits and therefore will reduce your chances of pinging.

why does 93 not ping when 87 octane will? it's in the octane rating. 93 is "harder to ignite" than 87. it doesn't burn any cleaner, or have more energy than 87 octane does. however, it requires more energy to initiate combustion, and therefore is less prone to detonation during the compression cycle or due to hot embers in the combustion chamber. also, like metioned before, 93 octane allows the engine to run at peak performance by allowing the timing to be as far advanced as possible.

on the contrary, for an engine designed to run on 87 and then you put 93 in it, you are simply wasting your money. the engine will still run the same and you won't notice a bit of difference in power or performance. absolutely ZERO difference. as long as it is well maintained w/ low amounts of carbon deposits that would normally cause detonation and lead to a retarted timing, then using 93 octane won't do anything but make you poorer.

as far as Mid-Grades go. it's really a waste.

ok class. back to work...
 
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