Not sure what I bought

[half k cruiser]

I picked this up this morning just a mile from my house. I know its a Bantam because it has their tag and matches a few pictures I've seen. I really don't know much about them though. Its a pretty cool little trailer and I can move it around the yard by hand which is super convenient. The sides and tailgate are very straight with no rust. The floor pan needs cut out and replaced due to someone storing it level. Tailgate works, not sure if the lights work as I didn't try it. The pintle is gone and replaced with a tube section and 2'' ball. I was thinking this could be a cool offroad build. Or if they have a collectable value maybe I will just sell it to someone who wants to restore rather than chop it up.

 

[half k cruiser]

Overall the actual body is in very good shape. The entire under side has surface rust, but it looks like it will blast off no problem. I'm thinking the pan can be cut out and replaced with a flat sheet of 1/8''. I originally thought this was a M100 but when I got there I noticed the fold down gate and the Bantam tag on the front.

 

[love2fly]

Well from what I can see you have a very nice trailer and yes you have two collectible's as in one of two types, one being the military version which you do not have and the civilian model that you have.
The civilian one you have is not the highest on the scale to find as the military one's can fetch some good money, but the civilian one you have is also a pretty good find. military trailers during the WWII had several company's that built the trailers to specs for the military jeeps so they pretty much looked all the same such as the M416 one of the worlds best little made trailer for a tag along.
There are a few charges but not much that I can see that the PO(s) have done. One is the angle bar with the lights, that is not original as that trailer only had one tail light when new. Also those mixture of ugly trailer lights were not original. the hitch, hitch tube, crank stand were also added sometime after. The sad part to me is that Military Lunette style Ring Assembly with Stand are gone.
That assembly (see picture) is as far as I am concerned made that trailer much more usable in unfriendly areas when of road.
Of course the wheels are not original as the trailer had what were old combat rims or older Jeep wheels that were to interchange between the trailer and a Jeep. You need to take care and clean that tag off and get the it back to normal, and also see what data you have on it.
You can do a we search by typing The Bantam T3-C Page were you can see and read all about the Bantam trailer, pretty cool site.
All in all you have a nice trailer and is worth keeping, but thats up to you but I bet someone on Mud would love to have it, like me.
Enjoy that trailer.

 

[cruiserpilot]

That's a keeper! Nice find.

 

[greentruck]

That's a very nice example. Sure, there have been some mods, but they look reversible without too much trouble. Even so, you can still see the otherwise very attractive original lines and details.

If you had planned a bunch of mods, I would get another trailer and think of this one as more of a restoration project. If you're not into that, some patient marketing might bring you a nice profit on this one and the money in the pocket to buy a more suitable base for a build.

 

[half k cruiser]

Thanks for the replies everyone. My plan is to pull this thing out later today and really see what needs to be done with it. @love2fly how can you tell its not the military version ? I know I've read that the civilian versions had the flat floor, but this one does have some shallow ribbing on the floor pan. Any idea where to get a replacement lunette ? I will try a little Xylene on that tag later and see if I cant get some of the paint out of the numbers. I can see it has a serial number up at the top but can't quite read it. I might try a paper transfer first and see if that works.

 

[love2fly]

It has a drop gate that only the civilian model had and it has no shocks (I bet) that only came with the mil versions.
After WWII Bantam had stock piles of parts to make the trailers for the Army but lost the contract with the Mil due to the wars end so they used up all the parts right away such as the shocks on some supper early civilian versions (worth some bucks) then started to build and sell to the public with the drop gate edition. Farmers loved them. The ser# can help with the year of the trailer, as for the lunette that's going to be the hard part but if you keep looking as in on Ebay and such you might get lucky. Need to see a more close up picture of the front hitch area, the PO my of buggered that up for a lunette to be reinstalled.,

 

[half k cruiser]

So is this essentially a 1/4 ton trailer. I was looking at the fairly thin leaf springs under it and wondering if those things are going to snap if I take this thing bumping along off-road. Maybe add a pair of shocks to it ?

 

[love2fly]

It should hold around 500 lbs in it plus a bit more, no real need for shock. the springs are good. Its a good 1/4 ton trailer and as mentioned worth keeping.

 

[half k cruiser]

Ok, finally had the time to go play with the trailer a bit. Of course the first step is to see where everything stands. Number one on my concerns is the jankety draw bar that some PO spliced into the frame. Its clearly obvious that they used a torch to cut a semi round hole through the C-channels and install this large piece of pipe. From the underside the floor clearly needs replaced as it is sagging and you can see daylight in a few hundred places.

The wiring is of course garbage just like the other PO mods. But i'm not too concerned about that. It will be easy enough to rewire and make everything look nice.

^^^^ is my main concern. I wouldn't take this offroad in its current state. If that channel buckles its going to be a problem.

This must have belonged to a farmer at some point. They are the only ones I've seen with this type of fabricating "ability"

My other concern is these leaf springs. They are fine now, but I've heard of springs breaking on the trail. My main concern is that they are 70+ years old.

A shot of how they tied the draw bar into the rear C-channel

 

[half k cruiser]

Ok, so with the above photos for reference maybe I can get a few good opinions / ideas from the membership here. Here are my thoughts, please feel free to share yours.

1) The work that was done is reversible. The old floor has to come out anyway. With the floor out I will have full access to the C-channel. My thought here was, cut out that draw bar, then either weld a heavy gauge splice into the original channels, or, carefully cut each channel out and replace with new.

2) The draw bar : I would like to see an undercarriage shot of someone else's stock T3-C so I can see what its supposed to look like up front. It looks like the factory bar probably just had two legs that triangle back to the first 1/3 of the trailer, terminating before the first C-channel.

3) If I go the restoration route then I would like to source a canvas cover for this. I have a friend who could make side rails and bows for it. If anyone knows where to get repro covers please let me know.

4) At a minimum if I keep it I will want to use it for both utility and off road use. That means the stock tires and 15'' wheels need to go. Does anyone know if I can just convert these hubs to 6 x 5.5 ? That way it would be reversible later ?

5) Options B&C are either sell it for a profit and move on or just mod this thing beyond stock. That would include sliders/side steps, some sort of locking lid or box, possibly some shocks or air bags to help support those little leaf springs. Maybe a rack on top, who knows.

 

[love2fly]

The floor is a long but a fairly easy process if you can find a company local that will cut to size the floor and bend the sides to 3/4 all around to be spot welded in. You can redo the frame that the PO had screw up, re-move the spot welds from the lower sides and then remove the tub as seen in picture 2. I sandblasted the complete frame the used POR for a life time seal on the frame. Picture 4 is all the parts after blasting, and the other is with the new floor in. I also put extra cross over steel beams in the frame to support a large load. The rust flash is going to happen with contact with water but can be neutralized easy.
Take the springs apart and inspect, usually they just look bad but are not. They can be replaced with after market spring if need be.
Remember when you mod it it is no longer original, so will disagree that mods sell better but a real collector would pay more for original.
Good luck

 

[half k cruiser]

@love2fly those pictures are definitely worth a 1000 words. The frame shot is exactly what I needed. Also I didn't realize that you could pull the sides but now that I look I can see where its spotted in at. That should make things a lot easier for fixing the frame. As far as original goes, for sure the draw bar will never be the same again. Its really not hacked up that bad where the PO spliced that tube through it. I'm confident I can box it out and put whatever I want in there ( with exception to original that I don't have ) . Options would be an extendable tongue or maybe two sets of bolt in plates. One with a pintle, the other with a standard ball coupler.

As for the floor I was thinking 1/8'' sheet. I have a buddy who can CNC that for me. My other thought there was getting 1/8'' x 3/4'' wide bar stock and running several 6 foot strips longways down the bed. This would in effect re-create the factory stamped floor, give a little more strength, and act as a shield for the main floor when you were sliding things in and out. Thoughts ?

Oh, and I did clean up the tag on the front. Aside from one of the rivets being broken everything is there and you can read the serial number clear as day.

 

[love2fly]

What is the SN?
When you remove the tub, you can reinstall it by adding tabs to the side instead of spot welds back to the frame. This is so you can remove the tub with ease next time if you want for what ever reasons. The Military Lunette style Ring Assembly with Stand as I said was the best thing I did for this trailer for towing. Yes it makes knocks and bumps when off road but when I'm at a near 45 degree angles or more going up or down or over rocks, that little trailer responds well not like a 2" ball hitch, they can be a problem.
Since then I have changed the fenders to M416 style were they fit fine and I am keeping the round fenders that can go back on in no time, and changed the wheels and tires to an older Jeep rim with a spare on the underside. Everything I have mostly done to this 1/4 trailer can be undone to look original. Mine is a keeper.
Have fun with yours.

 

[half k cruiser]

@love2fly SN#10457 what you did with that rack mounting it into the stake pockets is downright slick. I had thought about asking my buddy to make a bow for it out of oak. Seeing yours gives me the idea to just break out the tube bender and make something out of 1'' round. It would be infinitely more functional and modifiable, then could be easily pulled out to get the trailer back to stock. Do you have any close-ups of what you did there in the stake pockets ?

 

[love2fly]

Just welded legs to the rail frame (2) on each side as in picture, and to keep it at a height in the pockets I welded tabs on the inside. Extremely easy to remove and will not bounce out of the pockets. Carry a load on the rack (Elk, deer, camping supply's, tent, beer) and have the underside open for anything else needed.

 

[half k cruiser]

@love2fly I owe you some beer for all of your help with this. I pulled the fenders, tub, and floor yesterday. Today I cut out that modified draw hitch. The next step will be trying to remove the factory c-channels one at a time and replacing them with undamaged ones.

Once the frame is boxed and supported properly I can start work on the draw bar. I'm pretty confident this is one area that won't go back to stock. The PO did some damage up front with a blow torch. I think I will make a 2.5'' tube sleeve that runs back to the first c-channel. This can act as a home for an extendable tongue. I know its not original, but should be a worth wile update for her 70 year refresh.

Also, I busted a stud off on the DS wheel hub the other day. I'm sure you can guess why. Anyhow, I need to press it out and was thinking about replacing all with normal thread studs. Do you have any idea whether these can be swapped to 6x5.5 hubs while retaining the factory axle ? Oh and here's the link to the restoration thread, feel free to kick around any ideas or suggestions you may have. the Sandlot a Bantam T3C resto-mod