New project I think...first gen

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Cruiserdrew said:
I'd say the gauntlet has been thrown...for both of you.:D

It would be great to have you both on the Wagon Run.


I agree that Semlin's perspective is warped by the muddy goo they wheel in in Canada, and the beautiful and forgiving, traction rich terrain around Moab. The Sierras are a different animal, and while an 80 can be made to go through there, it isn't always pretty.

80-world's best expedition/versatile truck.

Minitruck-world's best hard core wheeler on a budget.
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I wasn't going to mention the leader of the wagon run leads it in a sprung over 40 with 35's and an sm465 :D
 
Cube Dweller said:
OK, the value of time for mods argument is specious. Baselining an 80 takes a crapload of time too. Adding dual cases is barely more time consuming than R&Ring the transfer case alone. Modding the axle housing for elockers is about 6 hours for both.

I don't think the Cube vs. Val rig is a valid comparison. Perhaps part of our disagreement stems from different perspectives on intended usage. I'm building a mini that can transverse the Rubicon and other trails thru Sierra like Fordyce and Dusy Ershim, while still being useful for Home Depot runs and to drive 5-6 hours to go hunting. In current modified config, Val's rig would be seriously pummeled through the Rubicon, if it could even make it. He would definitely need to armor up the transfer case, add sliders, and run at least 33's. Even then there would be frequent recovery strap usage. And I'll give a 50-50% chance at a bent tie or relay rod. As for not regearing in an 80, I was riding shotgun with Norcaldoug one year climbing a steep granite slab when his tranny stalled- regardless of gear selection, in 4 low his truck would not move forward. He was forced to back up, get momentum and speed through that section in a rather uncontrolled fashion. 315's with stock gearing. The trucks that were regeared didn't have this issue.

As far as armor costs, I can buy sliders, front bumper and rear bumper for $800, from Marlin. For another $300 I can add a combo transfer case crossmember/skidplate, similar to what IPOR sells for the 80. $1100, done. How much are sliders alone for the 80?

I know Canada has equally difficult trails, but are those what you envision when you're thinking the 80 is nearly as capable as a built mini? I'll be the first to concede that for expedition wheeling, the 80 is a far superior vehicle- coil sprung, spacious interior, more comfy, heavier weight dampening road undulations, etc. But for the Sierra, bah!

How about this: if I can get it done in time for Rubithon, I'll register for both the wagon run and one of the hardcore runs, and you can have the passenger seat, plus drive as much or as little as you desire. You'll get first hand knowledge of the difference between the two on the trails I'm building for.
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i'd love to do the rubicon for sure. so i am in.

i agree there is a point beyond which an 80 cannot keep up with a mini as a rock crawler. my point is that, by the time your mini is modded enough to catch up to a lifted locked 80 on 35s, you will have spent more money and way more time (base lining an 80 is a couple of judiciously spent afternoons plus a birf job, and the lift goes in in half a day -- it does not remotely compare to installing elockers, pinions, gears, transfer case(s), beefier birfs, engine, high steer, etc... ;) ) and have a vehicle that, except for rock crawling and home depot trips, is not the equal of the 80 at anything :D

anyway, let's see. maybe if you keep your budget down to $3500, val and i will come down and we can go head to head :D
 
semlin said:
i'd love to do the rubicon for sure. so i am in.

i agree there is a point beyond which an 80 cannot keep up with a mini as a rock crawler. my point is that, by the time your mini is modded enough to catch up to a lifted locked 80 on 35s, you will have spent more money and way more time (base lining an 80 is a couple of judiciously spent afternoons plus a birf job, and the lift goes in in half a day -- it does not remotely compare to installing elockers, pinions, gears, transfer case(s), beefier birfs, engine, high steer, etc... ;) ) and have a vehicle that, except for rock crawling and home depot trips, is not the equal of the 80 at anything :D

anyway, let's see. maybe if you keep your budget down to $3500, val and i will come down and we can go head to head :D
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Are you volunteering to drag your rig or Val's thru the Rubicon :D ? Cause I'm sure Val would appreciate you volunteering his.

So again back to biases or distorted perceptions...perhaps I have them as well, since to me modifying an axle housing for an elocker is a :banana: :banana: job, and I forget that not everyone worked as a machinist in a previous life or has a 220v mig welder in the garage. My neighbor actually has a bridgeport in his, so I'm going to see if I can talk him into letting me machine the housings on that, which will rock, since I can cut the slot, mill the section I weld up flat and drill and tap the holes for the additional studs in one setup.

I'm not giving in on the regearing though. A mini with dual cases and stock dif gears is actually geared better for off road than 80 with the same. So from a cost perspective, we either count it for both the 80 and the mini, or we don't for either.
 
Cube Dweller said:
I'm not giving in on the regearing though. A mini with dual cases and stock dif gears is actually geared better for off road than 80 with the same. So from a cost perspective, we either count it for both the 80 and the mini, or we don't for either.
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val won't mind i'm sure :D

if you want to run a minitruck on 35s with stock gears (and birfs), that is your business. i don't care what you do, just keep track of your hours, expenses and travel mileage and we'll see how the finished product stacks up.
 
semlin said:
does he want a pto for the sm465?
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Sure, love to have it. Bring it to Rubithon as I have a 465 in the garage waiting for a future project.
 
sorry, i don't actually have one, but there is one locally for sale in the classified. it has dropped from $300 to $150 in the past couple of weeks.
 
semlin said:
val won't mind i'm sure :D

if you want to run a minitruck on 35s with stock gears (and birfs), that is your business. i don't care what you do, just keep track of your hours, expenses and travel mileage and we'll see how the finished product stacks up.
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Jeebus, this is supposed to be a fun project, not a billing statement for a legal client. :p

I'll keep a ROM tab in this thread for parts cost and extraordinary hours. If you want to obsess over how many miles I drove to score a deal on some parts, you're welcome to so.
 
semlin said:
how much does that one call cost :D

and how much is cube's time worth for all the mods he is about to embark on?

it depends on you final destination, but good brakes and tranny, lockers and lots of torque means you can go a long way in an 80 without gear reduction. my point is that you can build a locked 80 simply by lifting it for $700 or less used, throwing on 35s and being careful, and you will kick the ass of most minitrucks. and you have a nice civilized daily driver too. adding armour all around adds to the cost, but minitruck armour is not free either.

valentine just bought a locked and medium ome lifted 80 on 33s for $3500 and the seats are properly attached and the engine is not making any funny noises ;) anyway, not intending to start a schotts like debate. the meter is on to see how much time and money cube sinks into this baby before he achieves the daily driver and offroad ability of val's truck.
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So now you're dragging me into this.... :flipoff2:
 
semlin said:
i'd love to do the rubicon for sure. so i am in.

i agree there is a point beyond which an 80 cannot keep up with a mini as a rock crawler. my point is that, by the time your mini is modded enough to catch up to a lifted locked 80 on 35s, you will have spent more money and way more time (base lining an 80 is a couple of judiciously spent afternoons plus a birf job, and the lift goes in in half a day -- it does not remotely compare to installing elockers, pinions, gears, transfer case(s), beefier birfs, engine, high steer, etc... ;) ) and have a vehicle that, except for rock crawling and home depot trips, is not the equal of the 80 at anything :D

anyway, let's see. maybe if you keep your budget down to $3500, val and i will come down and we can go head to head :D
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If my schedule works, I'm in. :D
 
Both rides are equally badass in different ways. I have a '94 SASed mini truck, a buddy of mine had a well equiped FJ60 and he was about the only one who could keep up with me in the deep snow. I would love to own an 80 sometime to wheel with the entire family... Both can be built expensive or cheap depending on resources and ingenuity. Both rides can kick ass on a limited budget. Why not just go wheeling and have fun? You can always dog on the jeep guys, right?
 
Cube Dweller said:
I'm not giving in on the regearing though. A mini with dual cases and stock dif gears is actually geared better for off road than 80 with the same. So from a cost perspective, we either count it for both the 80 and the mini, or we don't for either.
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It is also important to note that stock gears are also substantially stronger than lower aftermarket gears especially if you are going to run a hi pinion front.

Nice truck :)
 
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