New Member intro and Lift advise

[scooter74]

Hi All,

I am a proud new owner, of a new to me 2017 LC200. I am new to forums but I really like all the info and experienced members here so I want to be a part of it. I got the LC to replace my 24 year old GMC Yukon, which was a great truck for many adventures, but they just don't make those like they used to. I am confident the LC will be able to handle everything I will put it through. So far I have had it on a couple long trips including some rocky trails in the Utah high country. Overall I am pretty impressed with the ride and the off road capability. I do think some more ground clearance is needed so I need some suggestions. I have always been partial to the BFG KO2 AT tires and Bilstein suspension, but it seems those tires are limited in certain sizes (34"). I also carry a 4 bike rack and passengers/gear regularly and the rear springs seem a little soft for that, but I don't want to sacrifice too much ride quality when its not loaded. Any advice on the best options for this usage would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[OregonLC]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on an awesome truck!

This is a very subjective question. What may be 'soft' to you is 'firm' to someone else. Further, is it better to be 'soft' on washboards while sacrificing some handling on the highway? There's a balance.

The good news is that rear springs are easily (and fairly economically) swapped out. So if you over or undershoot on rate it's not the end of the world. I'd focus on the damping and ride height first and then fiddle with the rear rate if needed. There are a number of threads on which strut is better, benefits of adjustable vs fixed rate, etc.

The best thing would be to call an talk to a shop that really knows their stuff and talk through it. If you want five opinions on what shocks are best ask two cruiser heads.

 

[Sandroad]

Good to have another victim; oops, I mean member. There are lots of folks on here who will be happy to help you spend some money on that beautiful new ride.

'17 is the best year and I'm not biased at all.

I can't help with suspension because all I did was add airbags to the rear springs for towing. Don't forget to use the forum FAQ thread. In post #5 there are some linked threads on suspensions and gobs (to use a technical term) of info on what tires and wheels fit.

FAQ - 200-series FAQ for Modifications, Repairs and Build Threads. Great place for new users to start

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for the 200/LX570 series tech section continues to be a work in progress. The goal is to have links in the below to other threads and tech articles. By having these linked, instead of pasting the text, the threads will remain live. The live threads can...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[fajitas21]

'17 here too, just put a Westcott Designs lift on OEM equipment to keep things nice and squishy, but I'm a fan of progressively valved shocks from digressively valved normally. That would be things like Fox and OEM (Tokico). Bilsteins are gonna be more digressive as a lot of the major shocks out there (Icon, Bilstein, Falcon, Eibach). A decent middle ground is typically Kings, OME BP-51, and Ironman.

Sounds intimidating at first, but keep in mind that tires and suspension really make or break your enjoyment of the vehicle, so I'd certainly consult with a few shops or some of the knowledgeable people on this forums.

Personally, help us by answer these two questions:

What kind of trails do you like to do (i.e. intended purpose)?
How much are you wanting to spend?

 

[scooter74]

'17 here too, just put a Westcott Designs lift on OEM equipment to keep things nice and squishy, but I'm a fan of progressively valved shocks from digressively valved normally. That would be things like Fox and OEM (Tokico). Bilsteins are gonna be more digressive as a lot of the major shocks out there (Icon, Bilstein, Falcon, Eibach). A decent middle ground is typically Kings, OME BP-51, and Ironman.

Sounds intimidating at first, but keep in mind that tires and suspension really make or break your enjoyment of the vehicle, so I'd certainly consult with a few shops or some of the knowledgeable people on this forums.

Personally, help us by answer these two questions:

What kind of trails do you like to do (i.e. intended purpose)?
How much are you wanting to spend?

Thank you all for the input.
I was intrigued by the Westcott Designs lift but really wanted to hear from someone that had installed it. Sounds like it works well for you. I have a few questions:
Did you do the install yourself?
Was there any issue with alignment? UCA's needed?
What tires are you running?
Does it change the travel or spring rate?

I mainly use the LC for family trips so it will see lots of snow, rocky trails and the occasional sand dune.
Money is not the main concern. Longevity is, since I tend to keep my vehicles so long.

 

[fajitas21]

Thank you all for the input.
I was intrigued by the Westcott Designs lift but really wanted to hear from someone that had installed it. Sounds like it works well for you. I have a few questions:
Did you do the install yourself?
Was there any issue with alignment? UCA's needed?
What tires are you running?
Does it change the travel or spring rate?

I mainly use the LC for family trips so it will see lots of snow, rocky trails and the occasional sand dune.
Money is not the main concern. Longevity is, since I tend to keep my vehicles so long.

I, and a band of friends whom I consider family, do our own work. Some of us, however, own offroad shops, but I do not. However, I am of the mindset that I need to know how to do it, so when it breaks in the field, we can fix it. That's been pretty useful when you start wheeling harder. For my rigs, however, I am pretty mild offroader.

Short answer, yes, I do my own work.

With a spring compressor the lift was simple. I highly recommend cracking the KDSS valves before starting (just a little bit will do it). That would have saved a LOT of fighting the sway bars. Lesson learned.

I drove 400 miles home after the lift, that was plenty of time/miles to let it all settle, and I'm happy to say it changed my alignment so little that I probaby could have gotten away with never doing an alignment, but I'd not recommend that. Tires are expensive, and safety for $100 is pretty cheap too. No wandering feeling, and the Caster feels solid too, and steering wheel still feels "heavy."

I did not replace my UCAs. I will note, however, I only did part of the kit. I did the preload bottoms but not the 1/2" spacer on the top. I wanted to keep 1" of rake, so when I load down the truck I didn't have issues with sagging the rear. Very happy with results, I'm 1.5" lower in front now, as opposed to 3" OEM. It looks pretty level, but I still have some cargo loading. It was effectively a 2" front/1" rear instead of the 3" front / 1" rear they sold me. I just didn't use the spacer.

Ride quality wasn't affect, and I was really surprised by this as I'm picky about that. Those shocks I've listed above? I personally have experienced or owned them. Some in mine, and some in friends vehicles. There's others not mentioned too; Dobinson, Radflo, Toytec, I've ridden in all of them. I'd say the ride didn't change with this, but of course the dynamics of suspension mean if that if I preload 2" on the front I lose 2" of travel from center (2" less down), and gain 2" up...if that makes sense.

Spring rates on Toyotas are Linear, so it didn't stiffen up, as they aren't progressive springs.

Tires = 285/65/r18 BFG KO2 load E. These tires made ride slightly rougher than the stock, due to sidewall stiffness. This was more noticeable than the preload lift in fact, but still a nice ride. They knocked my city mileage from 14.5 to 12.5, and my highway from 20 to 18.5MPG.

The Westcott kit was $400 and I paid my buddy $300 to assist me on the install (mainly using his spring compressor), so with a $100 alignment I'm $1000 into it, with the option of going back if I needed to, as I was hesitant. But I wont' be going back.

Are the BP-51's better? Yes. But if you're going that route, don't hold back. Shocks, UCAs, bump stops, do it right. For me, and my mild weekend trips, aesthetics, and easy trails (like Ouray, CO trails - Imogene, Black Bear, Cinnamon, Hurricane, etc), this is fine. Want to go 100MPH in the desert? Get something better. 5 foot rock crawling? Ride in someone else's truck. For weekend adventures? Very cost effective and still an enjoyable daily driver.

 

[scooter74]

I, and a band of friends whom I consider family, do our own work. Some of us, however, own offroad shops, but I do not. However, I am of the mindset that I need to know how to do it, so when it breaks in the field, we can fix it. That's been pretty useful when you start wheeling harder. For my rigs, however, I am pretty mild offroader.

Short answer, yes, I do my own work.

With a spring compressor the lift was simple. I highly recommend cracking the KDSS valves before starting (just a little bit will do it). That would have saved a LOT of fighting the sway bars. Lesson learned.

I drove 400 miles home after the lift, that was plenty of time/miles to let it all settle, and I'm happy to say it changed my alignment so little that I probaby could have gotten away with never doing an alignment, but I'd not recommend that. Tires are expensive, and safety for $100 is pretty cheap too. No wandering feeling, and the Caster feels solid too, and steering wheel still feels "heavy."

I did not replace my UCAs. I will note, however, I only did part of the kit. I did the preload bottoms but not the 1/2" spacer on the top. I wanted to keep 1" of rake, so when I load down the truck I didn't have issues with sagging the rear. Very happy with results, I'm 1.5" lower in front now, as opposed to 3" OEM. It looks pretty level, but I still have some cargo loading. It was effectively a 2" front/1" rear instead of the 3" front / 1" rear they sold me. I just didn't use the spacer.

Ride quality wasn't affect, and I was really surprised by this as I'm picky about that. Those shocks I've listed above? I personally have experienced or owned them. Some in mine, and some in friends vehicles. There's others not mentioned too; Dobinson, Radflo, Toytec, I've ridden in all of them. I'd say the ride didn't change with this, but of course the dynamics of suspension mean if that if I preload 2" on the front I lose 2" of travel from center (2" less down), and gain 2" up...if that makes sense.

Spring rates on Toyotas are Linear, so it didn't stiffen up, as they aren't progressive springs.

Tires = 285/65/r18 BFG KO2 load E. These tires made ride slightly rougher than the stock, due to sidewall stiffness. This was more noticeable than the preload lift in fact, but still a nice ride. They knocked my city mileage from 14.5 to 12.5, and my highway from 20 to 18.5MPG.

The Westcott kit was $400 and I paid my buddy $300 to assist me on the install (mainly using his spring compressor), so with a $100 alignment I'm $1000 into it, with the option of going back if I needed to, as I was hesitant. But I wont' be going back.

Are the BP-51's better? Yes. But if you're going that route, don't hold back. Shocks, UCAs, bump stops, do it right. For me, and my mild weekend trips, aesthetics, and easy trails (like Ouray, CO trails - Imogene, Black Bear, Cinnamon, Hurricane, etc), this is fine. Want to go 100MPH in the desert? Get something better. 5 foot rock crawling? Ride in someone else's truck. For weekend adventures? Very cost effective and still an enjoyable daily driver.

That mostly all makes sense, except it seems to me, if it was a spacer preload lift you would lose your downward travel but because it is a collar lift you wouldn't lose any travel. If the spring was compressed the amount of the new collar, reducing travel, you wouldn't get any lift. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm no suspension expert.

Also how did you achieve 20mpg? Maybe mine has a problem, but I avg. way less than that.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[fajitas21]

That mostly all makes sense, except it seems to me, if it was a spacer preload lift you would lose your downward travel but because it is a collar lift you wouldn't lose any travel. If the spring was compressed the amount of the new collar, reducing travel, you wouldn't get any lift. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm no suspension expert.

Also how did you achieve 20mpg? Maybe mine has a problem, but I avg. way less than that.

Thanks for all the info!

So I get mixed up on the up-travel / down-travel. You're probably right. In fact I'm pretty sure you are and I have it backwards. Point being you lose a little travel, but it's pretty minimal on a vehicle like this.

20MPG was actually 20.5MPG, but there's a few things that I think attributed to this very unlikely scenario.

Bought car a few months ago - 2017 w/ 38,000 miles. Original tires on back, some pretty worn down but newer tires on front. These were the OEM dunlaps, not really even a 32" tire 285/60/r18 and run a little small. So flat land travel, all highway from long trip from TN to TX and back, could have gotten a tailwind on this leg, and bald tires.

When I put the 32.8" BFGs on I never saw better than 18.5, but that's pretty respectable too. Also, and this is key, my GPS checked speedo at 75MPH was accurate with these 33's, leading me to believe, just like my 4Runner, they are calibrated a bit off by factory. This also technically means that the 38k miles on it might have been slightly wrong too, but it's irrelevant as these vehicles do 10x that without much worry.

I think the reason I got 20.5 was because those undersized, bald tires - on a flat stretch of road, all 60 - 70MPH.

The only time I ever beat that, was my 4Runner going from Ouray to Durango, all downhill, and I scored a 22.5MPG. I will never see that in "normal" driving, however.