New Arizona Exhaust Fun

[Relix]

Read Kevins posts again. It doesn't have anything to do with throwing codes, its about the visual inspection.

I read Kevins post and (correct me if I'm missing something) the smog jockeys bring up a pic of what the stock exhaust should look like and if it doesn't look like that then they will inspect it some more to make sure it's legal? And I said to thatif it's odb2 and it has an o2 sensor before and after the cat & its not throwing a code it's Legal here in AZ..

Throwing a code is what the ECU does when it senses something isn't right, when you goto the emissions place with an odb2 car they just hook the scan tool up to the odb outlet thingy and if the ECU has a code thrown the car fails if it doesn't have any codes thrown the car passes..

 

[Relix]

he emissions stations are installing new software that brings up a picture of the bottom side and the monkeys look for your truck to match, if it doesn't you will get additional scrutiny, it may be up to you to prove it's in compliance or change it back to stock!

Define compliance,

 

[Relix]

This has absolutely nothing to do with making sense, it's about government and they don't care if it passes the tail pipe test. The systems I am talking about all were professionally done by custom exhaust shops, all using quality name brand legal parts, some on ricers and some on trucks.

Your right because I was reffering to what goes on in The Peoples Republic of California..It doesn't need to make sense if some tree hugging hippy lawmaker doesn't like the sound of your exhaust he'll pass a law that says it's illegal because he says so..... Good thing we live in AZ where if it doesn't look right they'll give it a closer look, but if it has the required equipment and doesn't exceed exceptable emission levels, you're A-OK

 

[MaddBaggins]

Just passing emission levels isn't enough. You can fail emissions on visual alone. The point Kevin is making (I think) is that with this new software if your exhaust doesn't look stock you could fail. It will leave a lot up to the interpretation of the people working at the station, until they decide on a standard that is exceptable.

 

[re_guderian]

Just passing emission levels isn't enough. You can fail emissions on visual alone. The point Kevin is making (I think) is that with this new software if your exhaust doesn't look stock you could fail. It will leave a lot up to the interpretation of the people working at the station, until they decide on a standard that is exceptable.

Compliance is defined as meeting the requirements in the Arizona Code. Until they change that, we're good. Unless they're getting more efficient at enforcing already existing law... This is why I asked previously if they'd changed the law or not.

 

[Tools R Us]

Compliance is defined as meeting the requirements in the Arizona Code. Until they change that, we're good. Unless they're getting more efficient at enforcing already existing law... This is why I asked previously if they'd changed the law or not.

I don't know if the law has been changed, I am not an attorney and haven't studied the code. The term they are using is "original configuration" no idea if there is something in the code to support that? This was advice given to me by an exhaust wholesaler, he gave it to me based on recent experiences of his customers, custom exhaust shops. He did say that they are concerned enough about their business that attorneys from the national exhaust organization are here working on a compromise or definition of what is allowable.

Also about a quarter of "The Peoples Republic of California, tree hugging hippy lawmakers" live here now and are working to make our lives an enlightened utopia!

 

[re_guderian]

Also about a quarter of "The Peoples Republic of California, tree hugging hippy lawmakers" live here now and are working to make our lives an enlightened utopia!

No doubt. But at least my house is worth more now Anyway, I'll reserach the code. It's all on the website. I just know with the headers on my 60, they didn't have to be CARB certified, and they most definitely weren't OEM, but they did retain all the original configuration of exhaust components, i.e EGR outlet, so they were happy. I don't plan on any mods to the 80, other than replacement muffler and maybe rotating the cats. They can't harp on that can they?

 

[Tools R Us]

No doubt. But at least my house is worth more now Anyway, I'll reserach the code. It's all on the website. I just know with the headers on my 60, they didn't have to be CARB certified, and they most definitely weren't OEM, but they did retain all the original configuration of exhaust components, i.e EGR outlet, so they were happy. I don't plan on any mods to the 80, other than replacement muffler and maybe rotating the cats. They can't harp on that can they?

They can harp on anything they want, they may not be correct or legal. If you think your right, you can plead you case with the referee, if he doesn't see it your way you can take them to court. It's not worth it to me, I want something that will pass with little hassle. The vehicles that they had problems with were newer OBD2 models.

My plan was to replace the two cats with a high efficiency one, a muffler and a resonator all between the frame and rocker, dumping just in front of the tire, protected by a slider skid. He thought we could fit two cats, but still thought it would confuse the monkeys leading to additional scrutiny and probable failure. There are a bunch of '96+ 80s around town with one aftermarket cat, I looked at several that were at dealers and said that they had just passed emissions. If my cats were bad I might risk it, my junk is in good shape, so I will just protect it with skids and call it good.

 

[re_guderian]

Here's what ARS 49-542 says (in part)

G. In addition to an emissions inspection, a vehicle is subject to a tampering inspection on at least a biennial basis if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and the vehicle is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test. The director shall adopt vehicle configuration guidelines for the tampering inspection which shall be based on the original configuration of the vehicle when manufactured. The tampering inspection shall consist of the following:

1. A visual check to determine the presence of properly installed catalytic converters.

2. An examination to determine the presence of an operational air pump.

3. In area A, if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test, a visual inspection for the presence or malfunction of the positive crankcase ventilation system and the evaporative control system.

 

[Relix]

Here's what ARS 49-542 says (in part)

G. In addition to an emissions inspection, a vehicle is subject to a tampering inspection on at least a biennial basis if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and the vehicle is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test. The director shall adopt vehicle configuration guidelines for the tampering inspection which shall be based on the original configuration of the vehicle when manufactured. The tampering inspection shall consist of the following:

1. A visual check to determine the presence of properly installed catalytic converters.

2. An examination to determine the presence of an operational air pump.

3. In area A, if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test, a visual inspection for the presence or malfunction of the positive crankcase ventilation system and the evaporative control system.

Doesn't sound bad at all to me

 

[-Spike-]

Thanks for the heads-up Mr. Tools. Obviously some of these guys don't understand what you're trying to tell them, but I appreciate it.

Let me try: The laws haven't changed, the enforcers have got a hair across their ass and are now really looking hard for ways to fail any exhaust system that isn't exactly as it was when it left the factory. Keep this in mind when modifying your exhaust system. Thank you.

-Spike

 

[sjpitts]

Here's what ARS 49-542 says (in part)

G. In addition to an emissions inspection, a vehicle is subject to a tampering inspection on at least a biennial basis if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and the vehicle is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test. The director shall adopt vehicle configuration guidelines for the tampering inspection which shall be based on the original configuration of the vehicle when manufactured. The tampering inspection shall consist of the following:

1. A visual check to determine the presence of properly installed catalytic converters.

2. An examination to determine the presence of an operational air pump.

3. In area A, if the vehicle was manufactured after the 1974 model year and is not subject to a transient loaded emissions test, a visual inspection for the presence or malfunction of the positive crankcase ventilation system and the evaporative control system.

The rub is likely "properly installed" catalytic converters. How do they define that? I could see how replacing two with one, or one with two, could be held by the smog nazis to be not "properly installed". They have to justify their existance somehow.

But then, this would only seem to apply to vehicles that are not subjected to a loaded emisions test. What does that mean?

Jared

 

[re_guderian]

The rub is likely "properly installed" catalytic converters. How do they define that? I could see how replacing two with one, or one with two, could be held by the smog nazis to be not "properly installed". They have to justify their existance somehow.

But then, this would only seem to apply to vehicles that are not subjected to a loaded emisions test. What does that mean?

Jared

They have to go by the definition in the law, which is admittedly pretty vague...

from the ARS 15. "Tampering" means removing, defeating or altering an emissions control device which was installed at the time a vehicle was manufactured.​

Not to miss the original point of the thread, which was exhaust dealers not selling parts, which I think is a little extreme. There is no new changes to the law, only better enforcement. Now instead of relying only on under-hood plates, now the state is going a little more high-tech to detect tampering, that's all. I don't see this as a reason to stop selling performance exhaust systems.

It has always been "illegal" to remove or "tamper" with your exhaust system for cars that require emissions.

And "Not subject to loaded emissions test" is like the 80 series, full-time 4WD, so it only gets an idle test at the tailpipe, unless 96 or newer, then likely just OBD-II scan.

Bah, I have so many things to do to the cruiser before I worry about removing cats, etc. etc. Plus, after driving a 60, the 80 has so much more relative power that I'll probably never mess with the stock exhaust.

 

[-Spike-]

Not sure if you intended to imply that dealers won't sell exhaust systems or not. I think Tools is saying the dealers are worried that they will be forced by the state to stop installing custom exhausts, and the suppliers are equally worried. If you understood it that way too, then simply ignore me, like herpes I'll go away eventually.

-Spike (It IS gonna go away, isn't it?)

 

[yotanut]

I was at my yearly state emissions certification class today. (for work fleet)
The trainer, who has been doing it for years, had no information about this or has heard anything about it. I trust him since he works out of the AZDEQ office in Phoenix.
-Duane