Need help with my rear

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Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Threads
68
Messages
658
Location
North Colorado
Need help with my rear <<UPDATE>>

O.k. no pics of my rear, but I'm hoping for suggestions about a problem I have with my 80's rear end.

Last December I had a local shop put 4.88 gears in my 80. After a few bumps in the road, all was well... until last week, when I heard a loud humming from the rear. I thought it was a u-joint, so pulled the rear driveshaft to check, and the U's are good. So lift the backside and spin a tire and there's a clunking sound. I get up under it and turn the pinion yoke and fell it right there. This weekend I pulled the diff and everything looks normal, but there is something binding. The gear teeth on both the pinion and ring look good (no chunks missing or burn marks) and I checked the pattern crudely and it looks o.k. to my uneducated eye.

So I loaded the diff in the back of my 4Runner and took it to the shop that did the work this a.m., but guess what? They've shut down.

So I am considering taking it to ACC, but wanted to see if the description prompted any thoughts first, and if there are any other shops or skilled shadetree mechanics to consider.

I'm in the Gainesville area, so ACC isn't out of range, but if there are folks closer, that'd be a help.
 
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ACC is the only shop to consider if you live in or near GA.
 
PM tkinze, I believe he took a 3rd member to a shop up near you to be set and they did it for a fairly good price.


I am sure Ted will chime in soon enough....he lives on this forum :flipoff2:
 
PM replied. I'm a little surprised no one has made fun of the thread title yet, I'll refrain... :hhmm:

I'm certainly no wiz at this but I know a (very) little...

if all the teeth look good and no obvious issues it can only be a couple of things that I know of. 1) Improper mating of the R&P gears--need to be re-setup or at least double checked by someone who knows what they're doing. 2) Failing bearing(s) there are a total of 4 I think - don't think you'd see anything obvious unless you see a bearing is literally coming apart, if so you know what to do from there. 3) I suppose possible but unlikely: crush sleeve gave out.


On another note--You should come out to the Annual this weekend, not far from where you are.

PM tkinze, I believe he took a 3rd member to a shop up near you to be set and they did it for a fairly good price.

I also took mine to the same shop -have better luck I suppose (xing fingers)

I am sure Ted will chime in soon enough....he lives on this forum :flipoff2:

Bite me :flipoff2:
 
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I'll look for details on the annual now. I'd like to attend. It'll depend on what I can resolve with the diff- either getting it fixed, or delaying it til next payday.
 
For those interested, here's the results of my weekend. I went to Rockabilly's on Friday to take a look at the diff. After a short attempt of breaking into it, I decided to take it to a local shop (Ron's Drivelines). Well, I got to Ron's and was told they don't work on diffs, they just sell the parts. So I was given the name of a guy and was told he was the best around, so I called him, left a message and went to the bookstore to give him a chance to call back. He calls and I go to his house and we agree that I could come back some time this week and he'd work with me to tear in to it to see what the problem was.

So I left there and was heading home and thinking about it and decided to swing by a friends machine/fab shop. There, I picked up a couple pieces of scrap C channel to bolt the diff to. I got home, bolted it up and clamped it to my work bench, pulled the carrier caps and ring and carrier out. So that eliminated any interference between the R&P. The pinion was still "ratchety". So I pulled the pinion nut off and started tapping the pinion out of the outer bearing.After a some hard BFH smacks, the pinion loosened and spun freely instead of binding. I drove the pinion out to check for any damage to the bearings, races or solid spacer. There is nothing obvious, so I took some measurements of the solid spacer shims and reassembled to see what I got. After getting it back together and torquing down the pinion nut, I got the same binding, and I found that when I got more than around 20 pounds of torque, the pinion bound up. If I loosened the nut and gave the pinion a whack, it and the ring gear spun appropriately.

so my conclusion of the problem is when the shop did the set up, they based the pinion preload on only around 20 pounds of torque. (Or they didn't bother with pinion preload) . The problem is that the solid spacer still needs about .020"+/- of shim for the solid spacer to be captivated between the inner and outer bearings. So I'm off to Nitro to see if they'll sell the shim separately from the solid spacer, and then off to cruiserparts to buy new Koyo pinion bearings.

If I'd gone with a crush washer, I think all would have been fine, but I liked the idea of a solid spacer for rigdity. I still like the idea of it if it's set up right, but this clearly wasn't. At least the solid spacer was used and not left on a shelf.
 
so this was resolved Thursday/ Friday. The end is that the pinion needed .048" of shims on the solid spacer and only had .033" of shim from the shop. I got all crafty Thursday morning and bought another outer bearing and some sandpaper and used a piece of PVC which I wrapped with sections of 220, then 800grit sandpaper to take .003" off the inner diameter of the bearing to use as a set up bearing for the pinion preload. With some figures from ZUK, and after about 3 hours of set up, tear down, adjusting of the shim pack, reassembly and checking of preload, I finally got it in spec.

I've got to rebuild the front end in a week and saved the extra shims. I expect to have to do the same up there. There was a vibration in the front in 4x4. The shop owner said he thought it was the transfer case and not the front diff, but I expect otherwise based on his work.

The end result? I wouldn't hesitate to build a diff now. For a total investment of (an additional) $137, I got a multi faceted lesson.
 
Who wants to Help put my longfields in.Need some grinding inside the axle housing end ball --- see Longfield web page for instructions--- looks pretty straight foward. Or I may be willing to pay some $$$. or barter LANDSCAPE SERVICES--- Time to Aereate and Overseed those Fescue Lawns!!!
 
HENDOG said:
Who wants to Help put my longfields in.Need some grinding inside the axle housing end ball --- see Longfield web page for instructions--- looks pretty straight foward. Or I may be willing to pay some $$$. or barter LANDSCAPE SERVICES--- Time to Aereate and Overseed those Fescue Lawns!!!

You know when you want to do it? I wouldn't really be much help but id like to learn for the future :)
 
It is straight forward just grind with a 60 grit flap wheel a 4 inch wheel fits better. You mainly take off the lip in front of the top and bottom bearing .
 
Great now you can come help with a tech meeting.

I'm good with that. I'm watching for the next meeting that I can make it to.

tomorrow a.m., I start the front end tear down on my 80 to install new bearings, seals and wipers. Tomorrow afternoon my Longfield birfs show up. That'll be tomorrow nights work. I'll also be checking the preload on my front diff and may be tearing it down and checking that all is together right.

Friday is reassembly.
 
Do you have factory lockers??? With Longfields, you must be ready to wheel the good stuff :grinpimp:

You want to help set those gears i bought from you?
 
I went with Longs for two reasons. I killed the birfs in my 82 LWB Toyota 4x4 and didn't know that was the issue (back in the early 90's). The Longfield reputation is great and the lifetime guarantee is a plus. secondly, the price of a factory one is within a few bucks of a pair of Longs.

Yeah, I'm willing to help if we can work out a time. I
 
It was converted to part time when i bought it. I just want it to be as capable as possible. Im finishing the frontend rebuild today. New spindles too.
 
I took off work Thursday the 25th through Wednesday the 31st to rebuild my front end and get some hunting in.

I started on Thursday morning by pulling the wheels and rotors and checking the spindle condition. I had a bad wobble at 45-50mph due to loose wheel bearings after my gear install by the now closed hack 4x4 shop. After checking the fit of the new bearing on the driver’s side spindle, it was clear I needed a new one. The spindle bearing surface had worn around .007” and not amount of tightening would fix the wobble since the outer bearing wouldn’t be engaged on the spindle. So I got on the phone to Cruiser Parts and got a new Japanese spindle with needle bearings on order. I pulled the passenger’s side to check that spindle, and while better, it was still worn. So make that two spindles. I got the order in and put the truck back to rolling status so that I could move it and close the shop up. My wife had a party planned for our daughter so I wanted to get out of the way.


Friday a.m. I go out to check on a squeaky belt on my 4Runner. My Longfields weren’t due until Friday around noon, so I had a few minutes. Long story short, I found that I had a broken bolt on the alternator bracket and after removing the alternator to get to the bracket, I found that all three bolts that hold the bracket on were broken. So off to Ace hardware for some bolts in my wifes 92 Toy pick up (this is a Toyota family). Finally around noon I get the alternator back on, and swap birfs.

I had the 80 to the point that I needed the spindles to continue, so the weekend was not for wrenching. Monday morning had me in my greasy coveralls at 7:45am tearing down for the arrival of the spindles. I already had the front end parts from Cruiser Outfitters, so I pulled the knuckles, replaced the seals and started on the knuckle bearings. Just before reaching the torque on the PITA lower knuckle bearing, I broke a stud. BIG “F”. Well, several big “F” bombs, repentance, and prayers later, I was down the road to Milton Martin Toyota to pick up a set of studs which they fortunately had in stock. (Thank you God). Another fortunate event was when I was trying to drill the broken stud part to get an easy out in it, it just unscrewed. I called to check on the spindle order and found that it was due for delivery on Tuesday, not Monday. So I got the knuckle back together and just put the old spindles back on to get the wheels on so I could roll the truck out of the shop. This ended up being a 10 hour day with what seemed like little progress.

Tuesday had me in the shop again at 7:45 (waiting for the sun to rise for extra light), again tearing down to install the spindles. I had things ready and while waiting, decided to check the front diff since I had issues with my rear diff (hence the thread title). I put the in/lb torque wrench on and got 10-12 “/# rolling torque. That’s about right, and I thought of letting it go, but there was a weird scraping which turned out to be the dust cover on the yoke. I checked the torque on the pinion nut, and like the rear it was less that my torque wrench would measure, which meant less than 25 pounds. So I decide to pull the diff. That was a pain because I hadn’t locked the diff before pulling the axles, and apparently you can’t get it to lock without the axles in place. So I pulled the e-locker system off and found the plunger and pushed it in, pulled the diff and went to work on that. In the mean time, the spindles showed up and looked great with proper fit to the bearing. I didn’t have or make a set up bearing for the front so I took a guess at the shim needed for the solid spacer based on the needed shim on the rear pinion and added a .020” shim, totaling .060” of shims. I lucked out and got a preload of 10-12 in/lbs. I reinstalled the carrier and checked the backlash. It was .060” instead of around .007. That’s huge and sloppy. So I played with the side bearing adjusters until I got backlash to .009” and got a good gear pattern. Here’s the crap that burned me up- when the peckerhead installed the gears, he didn’t even scrape off the old gasket material. He just slopped on some black RTV and stuck the diff back in the housing. He didn’t even seal it good. I had evidence of a leak at the top, letting water in and rusting one of the carrier bearing blocks. So I got to spend an hour sanding and cleaning the mounting surface of both the diff and the housing and cleaning up rust. It was nothing too bad and not on critical surfaces, but just lousy work. So I installed the diff, stuck the birfs in, installed the spindles and wheels, leaving only the brakes to finish. It was 11pm when I closed the shop. A 15 hour day with a ½ hour for lunch (salmon burgers and potato chips. Just as I went in the house, I realized I left the brake dust shields off, so I’d be tearing down yet again.

Wednesday, again at 7:45am, back in the coveralls. I tore down again and installed the brake shields, wrestled with getting the 100 pads on the rotors- turns out I had to strip off the squeal pads to get them in. I re-torqued the diff bolts, hub bolts and checked all the other bolts and rotated the tires. 12:22pm and I’m done.
I went in and took a nap.

So my costs due to the crappy shop work:
$166 on the rear diff due to new bearings, tools needed, seals and shim kit
$559 for the front end, not including birfs
Total $725 and about 36 hours of labor.
At least I know it’s right now, and it drives without shaking or death wobble.
 
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