Need a Cure (1 Viewer)

[addicted56]

A cure for death wobble that is. I've read a few of the posts I found useing the search but they use a lot of terms and list a lot of problems. #1 being the Panhard/Track bar.

5" lift/35" tires and been wheeled VERY hard in its day.

Panhard/Trackbar. I take it this is the bar that is welded on the passenger side/comes down to the drivers with a large bushing and then back to the passenger side with the same bushing?

It says there should not be any play. Well I went under and grabbed onto it and managed to get a very very little play out of it with some good shaking back and forth. But I take it that at 30-60 MPH with a big heavy car and tire that can get worse. Can anyone else get play out of theirs?

I have to fix this Death Wobble problem. I can't go 2 miles without it happening and I really thought I might die the first time it happened (5 minutes after buying the car) when I was traveling at 65 MPH. Did it 3 other times on my 85 mile trip back. but happened twice today in 2 miles on a back country road. Bad Juju

Am I looking in the right place or does anyone think it could be Trunion bearings of which I've heard mentioned (I have no idea what the heck those are). I assume they are just wheel bearings and when the hub is reinstalled the torque spec is incorrect?

 

[wearsabrowncoat]

I'm not sure but I'll give you a Bump.

Good luck.

 

[donutfj80]

With 5 inches of lift, did you adjust the caster? The bushings in the panhard bar are most likely toast.
Add them together and you get death wobbles.

 

[addicted56]

With 5 inches of lift, did you adjust the caster? The bushings in the panhard bar are most likely toast.
Add them together and you get death wobbles.

Suppossedly the last owner when the lift was done did add the caster bushing and control arms. I'll have to ask Slee. From reading old posts appears almost everything on this truck was done by Slee back in 2004. Travelled to Moab and Rubicon from NC so I'm sure it was done correctly.

Maybe it could be out again?

Is CDAN the man to contact about getting these panhard bushings? I see his name thrown up here all the time. I'm sure I could get new Caster Correction bushings from Slee if needed. Just not sure if they are or not. I hear they have to be taken somewhere to be pressed out.

 

[donutfj80]

Also make sure all nuts and bolts are tight up front. Some times they get over looked, but I bet it's the p/h bar bushings.

 

[-Spike-]

Tires out of balance will contribute to death-wobble, but yes, the panhard bar is the most likely culprit, whether it's the bushings or loose bolts. The trunnion bearings are the bearings that enable the truck to be steered, they are at the top and bottom of the steering knuckle. The easy test for them is to lift the front tires off the ground and grab a front tire at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions and push/pull it. Any play in the tire/wheel tells you there's something loose. Another push/pull at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions will tell you whether it's the trunnion bearings or wheel bearings. Loose wheel bearings will have play in both side-to-side (3 and 9 o'clock) and up-and-down (6 and 12 o'clock) directions, loose trunnion bearings will show only in the up-and-down direction.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Check all of your nuts, check the TRE and balance the tires... That should do it unless a bushing is completely shot. However, if that is the case, you should see it when you are tightening your nuts!

 

[addicted56]

Tires out of balance will contribute to death-wobble, but yes, the panhard bar is the most likely culprit, whether it's the bushings or loose bolts. The trunnion bearings are the bearings that enable the truck to be steered, they are at the top and bottom of the steering knuckle. The easy test for them is to lift the front tires off the ground and grab a front tire at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions and push/pull it. Any play in the tire/wheel tells you there's something loose. Another push/pull at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions will tell you whether it's the trunnion bearings or wheel bearings. Loose wheel bearings will have play in both side-to-side (3 and 9 o'clock) and up-and-down (6 and 12 o'clock) directions, loose trunnion bearings will show only in the up-and-down direction.

Thank you I will check all of that.

I just rebuilt my front end on my F-250 (PIMA) and I called Trunion Bearing Ball joints. Sounds like the exact same thing.

I will know soon enough tonight. I can at least start dwindling down the list.

 

[greentruck]

I'm strictly learning here, especially as regards to suspensions, but as a former parts guy I can suggest something that might help.

You mentioned CDan, but also that it seems to have been a Slee-modded truck. CDan is a Toyota parts guy, so if it involves stock parts, yeah, call him. But for aftermarket parts, call on Slee if it's their lift.

Slee's website has some good documentation on it, so you can probably sort out which to choose by checking there first. Both have good reps as parts guys, so a call that's misdirected we get you where you need to be in any case.

 

[Cruiser Man]

Make sure you do not have broken belts in your tires.

 

[donutfj80]

I'm strictly learning here, especially as regards to suspensions, but as a former parts guy I can suggest something that might help.

You mentioned CDan, but also that it seems to have been a Slee-modded truck. CDan is a Toyota parts guy, so if it involves stock parts, yeah, call him. But for aftermarket parts, call on Slee if it's their lift.

Slee's website has some good documentation on it, so you can probably sort out which to choose by checking there first. Both have good reps as parts guys, so a call that's misdirected we get you where you need to be in any case.

I agree. Are the p/h bars Slee adjustable bars or is it the Slee diy kit? The diy kits still use the oem bushings.

 

[addicted56]

Well,

It appears I have a few problems.

#1: There are no wheel weights. I don't think that is the majority of the problem though. Im sure it doesn't help though.

#2: Lug nuts are all tight.

#3: The Control arms and Panhard bars are slee. The panhard is adjustable I assume it is set correctly. The bushing on the passenger side does not move at all but I can get a bit of movement out of the bushing on the drivers side...very little. I can not get the nuts to budge so the must be very tight.

#4: The wheel bearings seem fine. A tad bit of movement but I think the other wheels moves as well and it is more tire movement than anything.

#5: Trunion bearings are shot. I have a lot of of up and down movement and clunking. When I had bad ball joints on my F-250 I got a lot of shimming. I guess that could contribute to a severe unrecoverable death wobble with a lift and large tires. May also be the way these vehicles are set up. I compared it to my wifes stock rig and they are way way worse.

OK so I will probably replace the bushings just becuase but what I don't understand is how the trunion bearings can cuase the SEVERE death wobble I have. I'm talking worst I'm sure anyone could imagine. So bad my wife could actually see it in the rear view mirror and thought the whole thing was going to come apart. Mainly becuase these bearings only affect the wheels up and down while the wobble seems to create a side to side effect. I'm guessing that it creates some sort of sinus wave that then gets the panhard bushings wiggling and then the tires flexing causing a darn near unrecoverable wobble.

Thoughts? I'm obviously going to go in there and take care of the front end all at once. New wheel bearings, trunion bearings, and seals. As well as the bushings. (do these need to be pressed out like the control arms?)

 

[-Spike-]

The up-and-down movement you're seeing with the push-pull test translates to side-to-side on the road. Think about this- when you move the tire in and out, the contact patch (tire-to-pavement area) is moving side-to-side in relation to the road.

Do a full axle maintenance and see if the problem doesn't disappear. Consider doing the rear axle too, they get ignored and need love too.

 

[addicted56]

RGR,

I got it that makes sense to me. I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Well the local club ONSC is doing 3 axle rebuilds and a lift at next weekends HAMOM. I guess I will have to take really good notes and get some parts on the way. Make a really long weekend of rebuilding the front end and the steering pump.

I took a look at the rear and didn't seem to see any axle seal leakage there but rear brakes need to be done so I will dig in again anyway.

 

[Clint79]

How about some drop box's
not sure on the cruisers, but a mate with 4" lift on his coiled nissan patrol had mega death wobbles and the DB's sorted it out

These pics are landcruiser one from the ne

When lifting bigto try and elimit all death wobble gremlins you have the adjust all the susp bits as you can see with the sway bar and rear rod

 

[lt1fire]

Jason when you say you can get play from the panhard do you mean grabbing the bar and twisting it??
Mine is brand new and I can still bet a little play out of it (that ofcourse might be my sasquatch hands mashing on it though )

The panhard also might not be adjusted right.
Is this panhard a full on slee piece or the slee DIY piece, because if it as full on one it already had the bushings replaced with the new bar. Same thing with the caster bushings. It could (with 220k on it) be the bushing on the lower control arm that connects to the frame, since that would be the only one that hasn't been replaced. I'll come and give ya a hand on yours when I get back from Cali just let me know a date and i'll try to work with it.

Death wobble can also be from the steering box and might need to be tightened up.

 

[addicted56]

Al,

Sweet I'll take you up on that. Well I have to rebuild my pump as it leaks really really bad so I might do the gear box at the same time. Doesn't seem to be any play though yanking on the drag link.

I have the full on Slee Panhards. Not the DIY. Yes I do get the movment when I tug on them very hard and try twisting at the same time. I would say they are probably good.

Same thing with the control arms. They seem to be slee as well (solid round tube VS the stamped stuff on our other rig). So you are saying those bushings may be stock eh? I couldn't not get any of those to budge a bit though.

I sure could use help on front end rebuild though. All the beer/pizza you and Andy can drink/eat. I probably am going to have to get it done before the next HAMOM.

 

[lt1fire]

If they are full on slee control arms they might be new bushings also. What color are they? slee uses blues and the oem are normal rubber color.

 

[addicted56]

If they are full on slee control arms they might be new bushings also. What color are they? slee uses blues and the oem are normal rubber color.

They look black to me....were they blue back in 2004?

 

[lt1fire]

Call christo and ask him. I really have no idea