Mitsu 4M40 injection pump on 1Kz ??

[Dougal]

What is the timing spec for the 1KZ-T?

 

[yotahed]

It only gives a degree value of 7* ATDC with 1mm +-.03mm which is absolute crap. everyother spec ive seen is "plunger lift at outlet "x" which is how we set and lock them at work.
If you give me the pump number off the side, i can have the proper spec and tell you which outlet is #1 so at least you can verify your line routing.
1KZ lines are: from the back of the pump from top left going clockwise: 4 3 1 2. should be same as the 4m40 pump verified on another site.

 

[Wez]

The pump itself is what needs to be timed correctly.
Where the gear and pulley are in relation to the crank is the stock location for the stock pump and the stock marks.
After you time the pump as per above (ill try to get the proper spec for you), look at where the key way on the shaft will be in relation to the stock location with all the stock marks lined up. If you can fit the pump back on within the adjustment of the slotted mounting holes, then youre good, just make new matchmarks on the pump flange and timing case. If its too far out to get the pump on with the adjustment range of the holes, you will need to jump a tooth on both the gear and cam belt pulley (i assume they will move as one.) so the pump will go on, and make new timing marks on both for reference. This will only affect the pump timing and wont affect the cam or crank relationship as long as you line everything up stock before you start and dont move it.

If your firing order is out, youll need to verify your line routing. If the pump fires A,B,C,D for example, your order is 1,3,4,2 , your lines would be 1-A, 2-C, 3-D, 4-B. depending on how the pump is timed. If it states that you must time it to outlet D first, then outlet D is number 1.
It certainly wont run if its not correct..

Well I checked all of the above, the pump timing is spot on, and the firing order also, it has to be the pump! I can't see an air lock being the problem but that is next on the list to try and cancel out, along with pressure etc.

 

[Wez]

The pump itself is what needs to be timed correctly.
Where the gear and pulley are in relation to the crank is the stock location for the stock pump and the stock marks.
After you time the pump as per above (ill try to get the proper spec for you), look at where the key way on the shaft will be in relation to the stock location with all the stock marks lined up. If you can fit the pump back on within the adjustment of the slotted mounting holes, then youre good, just make new matchmarks on the pump flange and timing case. If its too far out to get the pump on with the adjustment range of the holes, you will need to jump a tooth on both the gear and cam belt pulley (i assume they will move as one.) so the pump will go on, and make new timing marks on both for reference. This will only affect the pump timing and wont affect the cam or crank relationship as long as you line everything up stock before you start and dont move it.

If your firing order is out, youll need to verify your line routing. If the pump fires A,B,C,D for example, your order is 1,3,4,2 , your lines would be 1-A, 2-C, 3-D, 4-B. depending on how the pump is timed. If it states that you must time it to outlet D first, then outlet D is number 1.
It certainly wont run if its not correct..

Well I checked all of the above, the pump timing is spot on, and the firing order also, it has to be the pump! I can't see an air lock being the problem but that is next on the list to try and cancel out, along with pressure etc.

 

[yotahed]

do you have power to your shutoff solenoid at the rear of the pump? it should click on when you apply power. maybe the circuit you have it wired to cuts out in the 'start' position. try running a jumper right off the battery to the connector to test it.

 

[Wez]

do you have power to your shutoff solenoid at the rear of the pump? it should click on when you apply power. maybe the circuit you have it wired to cuts out in the 'start' position. try running a jumper right off the battery to the connector to test it.

This engine is sitting on a pallet on the floor, so I have a lead from the battery direct to the shut of valve and its working fine, she ticks over beautifully and will rev a few hundred revs more, but that's it! its as tho she just isn't getting enough fuel! Strange thing is their is very little fuel coming out of the return pipe from the pump when idle! is that normal?

 

[yotahed]

is the pump tilted towards the block quite a bit?
The guy on the other site said he had to tilt it till it was almost touching.

For fuel, it should be a steady stream out the return, not tons, but a steady flow.
does it smoke white at all while idleing?
It does sound like its not getting fuel..

 

[Wez]

is the pump tilted towards the block quite a bit?
The guy on the other site said he had to tilt it till it was almost touching.

For fuel, it should be a steady stream out the return, not tons, but a steady flow.
does it smoke white at all while idleing?
It does sound like its not getting fuel..

She gives a wee puff of suit when firing up from cold and then is clean whilst idling, It's no where close to a steady flow... the odd drip!

Yes, it sounds like a fuel shortage, I just don't know how to fix this one! Ie; the pump being a tad completed.......
I wonder is it a common problem?

 

[yotahed]

who rebuilt the pump? does it have tamper seals on it? or paint on the adjusting screws? I'd send it back for a check, or get it done locally and send them the bill. doesnt sound normal.
Even it was timed wrong, put on upside down, injector lines mixed up..... as long as its turning the right direction and has power to the solenoid, it will pump fuel, and return unused fuel out the return line if working correctly. But if there is very little fuel exiting, you have very little housing pressure. which should sit anywhere from 17-30psi at idle.
I have a feeling you have a bad transfer pump or pressure regulator.. or it was installed backwards... or some blockage at the inlet maybe...
Are you sure of your inlet and outlet hose routing? fittings plugged? when you say "the odd drip" are you talking about out the pump housing return?, or the injector leakage pipe?
Fuel return is back of the pump on the top cover under the diaphragm vent., inlet is at the front on the near side.

 

[Wez]

I bought the pump on ebay, the chap I bought it from is a breaker and to his understanding it had been recently been rebuilt.
It does have yellow paint on the adjusting screws and has a anti-tamper wired screw with paint, it does look as though it has had a re-con.
Low housing pressure sounds rite! Both inlet and outlet are correct, 8mm inlet and 6mm return, yes the return pipe has but a drip coming from it.
I have the pump of again or id have checked if the drip returning was injector return or pump return! I is however just a drip, which can't be rite!
I had a look and can't see any blockage or restriction in the inlet.....
As the pump is bought as a second hand part, ill have to explore a local shop to see if I can get somewhere with this!
Do you know what max fuel psi should be going to the injectors?

 

[yotahed]

Probably around 1750-1850psi for IDI injectors.
That sucks man. Like i said , you should be gettin a good stream of fuel at pressure out the return. Thats where you reference supply pump pressure, as the whole housing gets pressurized. So it sounds like something went bad. Where fo you live? Alberta? GCL diesel in edmonton is a pretty good shop from what i hear. Might be worth a phone call for a quote.

 

[Wez]

Probably around 1750-1850psi for IDI injectors.
That sucks man. Like i said , you should be gettin a good stream of fuel at pressure out the return. Thats where you reference supply pump pressure, as the whole housing gets pressurized. So it sounds like something went bad. Where fo you live? Alberta? GCL diesel in edmonton is a pretty good shop from what i hear. Might be worth a phone call for a quote.

Yea it does suck.....I wish it just pumped!!!
I'll not give up yet...
I walked past the pump a few times today and threatened to pull it apart........ I live in the North of Ireland. Plenty of pump re-con shops around but at a price...... I always approach problems as tho I was in the middle of no-where and try to fix things myself!
I'm thinking id need specialist kit + know-how, and the cost of that for a one off defeats the purpose.
I'm just not sure id be any the wiser with what id find on this one! I've looked on youtube and got as much info as there seems to be, in thinking about how it works, there cant that much wrong, or maybe plenty. ha ha ....
I'm partly content with the fact that I got the 1KZ-TE/4M40 set up running!
I might keep an eye on ebay for a second pump if I could get one at the rite price!! Can't be unlucky twice?
If I get it running, I would then get an adaptor plate sorted to match up with the boat bell housing, engine mounts, and an exhaust heat exchanger to suit the boat outlet............all the good stuff im putting off over this dam pump!!
I'ts a good project!! better than the thirsty 7.4 GM gas fuel lump I have as the other option.....
You have been a huge help on this pump issue, thanks for that............
Are you in Alberta?

 

[yotahed]

British Columbia.

 

[yotahed]

A good way to tell if the pump has ever been rebuilt or re sealed is to take off the advance cover off the bottom right side. If the seal ring underneath is a bright neon green with a ridge in the middle, its an updated o ring. If its a dull green and has no ridge or is black, its never been changed.

 

[Wez]

I looked and yes the pump seems to have had a complete rebuild, I have left it in with a guy who is going to put it on the test bench next week, he thinks the return from the pump has to large a pin hole and therefore not building pressure up in the pump.
I'll let you know the outcome..

 

[yotahed]

Right on, yea i have a feeling its housing/feed/return pressure related. Im interested to know whats causing it.

 

[Wez]

Right on, yea i have a feeling its housing/feed/return pressure related. Im interested to know whats causing it.

Hi, Well I got the pump sorted!!
It had been running on Bio-fuel ( Fish and chip oil ) and the inners of the pump were like the bottom of a chip pan that had been using the same oil for years... It has been rebuilt and bench tested by an expert, at least I now know what I have.

 

[yotahed]

There you go, I've seen the damage that Veg does to pumps that sit for even a short period. Not pretty. And the damage isnt from sitting or the fuel itself necesarily, but the next time it is started and run. The rollers and cam plate take a beating and the advance piston sticks in the bore. Not to mention the valves and thrust bearings....

Glad you got it sorted out, It didnt seem like a common issue.

 

[Boags]

Hi, Well I got the pump sorted!!
It had been running on Bio-fuel ( Fish and chip oil ) and the inners of the pump were like the bottom of a chip pan that had been using the same oil for years... It has been rebuilt and bench tested by an expert, at least I now know what I have.

Hey mate how did you end up going witht he 4m40 build did it work in the end?