mechanical vacuum pump to replace dynamo/combo unit

[racerX]

Hallo Mates :

Looking to start a discussion to address the Dynamo /Alternator vacuum pump combo on the 3B ( & 2LT ) diesel

stock dynamo is 60 amp- I am sporting 55 amp bulbs - at nite my dash is dim - can only imagine taillamps and markers are dim as well - headlamps seem to crave more power

so - I pulled a mechanical vacuum pump - pulley drive - from a 77 Peugeot 504 - pretty compact - havent figured how to mount it yet to the 3B

So - hoping there will be some info put forth from someone who has idea's , experience , etc ... with the notion of running a larger dynamo - say from a 3FE 60 series and ditching the anemic combo dynamo - be nice to be able to run some aux lamps and an electric winch

cheers in advance

 

[Tapage]

if you found the way to run the vacc pump .. why stick with under 100 amps toy Alt .. I should go for all and bring a Tundra alt 140 amps ..

My personal plan some day it's run a electric vacc pump with one of those alts ..

 

[racerX]

Hallo tapage :

Down your way - you have access to a Galloper dynamo - these are good for 130 amp no ? and with a vacuum pump on the rear just like the Denso

when you are ready - I have 3 electric vacuum pumps sitting on the shelf - all came off off mid 90's Cadillac to run the suspension system

I will seek a Tundra dynamo - I figured the Zfj62 would be at least 110amps with all the windows and doors electric

cheers:

 

[Tapage]

Down your way - you have access to a Galloper dynamo - these are good for 130 amp no ? and with a vacuum pump on the rear just like the Denso

Yes I do .. are around 350 my wife wors for a Hyundai dealer down here .. her price.

when you are ready - I have 3 electric vacuum pumps sitting on the shelf - all came off off mid 90's Cadillac to run the suspension system

how much they cost . ? can you take a pick .. did you have a idea how much vacc they made . ?

I will seek a Tundra dynamo - I figured the Zfj62 would be at least 110amps with all the windows and doors electric

cheers:

Don't believe .. even the 80 series are just 90 amps .. and are much more newer with internal reg.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Hallo Mates :

Looking to start a discussion to address the Dynamo /Alternator vacuum pump combo on the 3B ( & 2LT ) diesel

stock dynamo is 60 amp- I am sporting 55 amp bulbs - at nite my dash is dim - can only imagine taillamps and markers are dim as well - headlamps seem to crave more power

so - I pulled a mechanical vacuum pump - pulley drive - from a 77 Peugeot 504 - pretty compact - havent figured how to mount it yet to the 3B

So - hoping there will be some info put forth from someone who has idea's , experience , etc ... with the notion of running a larger dynamo - say from a 3FE 60 series and ditching the anemic combo dynamo - be nice to be able to run some aux lamps and an electric winch

cheers in advance

I had a 60 or 65 amp alternator in my FJ73 with 2x100 watt spotlights and it would never dim the dash lights or headlights.
I suspect your troubles are from bad connections or a bad alt

 

[bigbrowndog]

X2 My Hj75 with 70amp alternator, runs stronger headlights, 4x 100w Spots, aircon and amp. Check your connections and check the alternator with a multimeter. I found it a heap better to modify the instrument cluster and change the incandescent bulbs to multi LED lights also in green [way brighter].
simple check for the alternator.
Set multimeter to the V with a horizontal line with 3 dots under it. [usually just before the omega ohms setting.
Pos on pos and neg on neg on the battery with the engine switched off.
Multimeter should read about 12.4 to12.6 volts
Start the engine and retest the same way , multimeter should read around 13.2 13.4
If this reading is close turn on the lights,blower fan, sterio and aircon etc, etc. If the alternator is sound it should increase the charge rate accordingly if not you may have a voltage drop to show it is on the way out.
My alternator died this week and I am told that the internal regulators are no longer available for the alternator. With the 2H alternator the diodes can also be a problem.
cheers

 

[bigbrowndog]

Couple of pics showing the internal and external 2H Alternators. cheers

 

[BEE-JAY42]

Bulbs are measured in Watts not Amps. Remember Watts = Volts x Amps, so a 60 amps alternator running on a 12Volt system would produce 720Watts (W=VxA ... 720W=12Vx60A). I'd dare say your bulbs are 55 Watts as this is the standard for low beam head lights. You would have to be running a rediculous amount of lighting for your alternator not to keep up. The only things i've heard of that are capable of outpacing an alternator are electric winches and massive stereo systems.

 

[bigbrowndog]

Bulbs are measured in Watts not Amps. Remember Watts = Volts x Amps, so a 60 amps alternator running on a 12Volt system would produce 720Watts (W=VxA ... 720W=12Vx60A). I'd dare say your bulbs are 55 Watts as this is the standard for low beam head lights. You would have to be running a rediculous amount of lighting for your alternator not to keep up. The only things i've heard of that are capable of outpacing an alternator are electric winches and massive stereo systems.

Give the bloke the benefit of the doubt [typo or brain fade at the time]
I am sure he does not believe he has 55 amp headlight bulbs
Besides if his brushes are worn or other parts of the alternator are beginning to fail he will not get full performance, apart form bad connections etc that Rosco all ready pointed out. Also the alternators usually make higher amperage as RPM increases or should do. I am led to believe the new 80 amp alternator makes over 100 amps at 1,800 to 2,000 RPM . My alternator just started to die it would hold a low charge at idle but would not run lights and wipers etc flattening the battery on a 100K trip.

 

[BEE-JAY42]

stock dynamo is 60 amp- I am sporting 55 amp bulbs - at nite my dash is dim - can only imagine taillamps and markers are dim as well - headlamps seem to crave more power

: =
If your re-read the original post it seems quite clear that he does think he has 55Amp bulbs, and he seems to be under the impression that his 60Amp alternator is having trouble keeping up with his 55Amp bulbs. I'm not sure why you would bang your head at my post (it seems i'm the first person who has actually caught onto his line of thinking and offered an answer relavent to it).

It was never my intention to embarrass, the point to people posting is to try and obtain help on matters they might not fully understand, Like auto electricals for example.

Just to make things perfectly clear so as not to offend anybodies sensibilities. Racer X, your stock alternator will easily handle the load of your lights, If your lights are dim you probably have a sick alternator or a bad connection somewhere (a point which was already raised I believe).

 

[roscoFJ73]

I am led to believe the new 80 amp alternator makes over 100 amps at 1,800 to 2,000 RPM .p.

The paperwork that came with my 110 amp 1HZ alternator said it was load tested to 137 amp

 

[Tapage]

The draw of the AC compressor can be measured in watts . ?

 

[valdezhilander]

Tapage,

The draw from the electric clutch on an A/C compressor can be measured in amps, it will sill be 12 or 24 volts. The load the compressor puts on the engine when it is engaged is usually refered to as a horse power rating. HP can be converted to watts, most engine manufacturers give both a hp rating and a watt rating. There is no relationship between a watt rating for the load on an engine and the load on the engines electrical system. It is very easy to use a clamp on ameter to measure the amp draw from an a/c clutch.

For those who want or need to get away from the stock alternator/vacuum pump I was thinking about trying to install a Ford vacuum pump off of a 7.3 diesel. It is belt driven and has three holes for mounting to a bracket. I think the GM 6.5 uses a similar set up.

 

[bigbrowndog]

The paperwork that came with my 110 amp 1HZ alternator said it was load tested to 137 amp

Yes, I have been told that the 1HZ alternator can make 110 amps as low as 300 or 500 RPM forget which RPM he quoted.. The bloke quoted me rates for the 80 amp alternator at 300/1,200 and 2000 or 2100 RPM but as they were quoted from his memory I did not like to quote them, but he sure knew his alternators.
Really surprised me that the regulators are no longer available [hope just up here] that is.

 

[bigbrowndog]

The draw of the AC compressor can be measured in watts . ?

Cheers David, If that was from my post I suggested the air con, lights,sterio etc be turned on so that the total load will be on when the multimeter is read. The current draw from the air con will include the clutch as Valdez pointed out +the blower fan, fan on the condenser[ if fitted] + the other electrics that run the system [relays, amplifier,temperature control resistor
,etc]. This third reading was where mine crashed. Lot of power going out and not much coming in from the alternator.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Do not attempt to read current draw on your vehicle unless you are using a clamp on ammeter. Your handheld multimeter is likely only capable of reading 10A, and you would need to be in series with the circuit. A clamp on ammeter is really the way to go to measure common high current situations. Plus it is just plain safer.

Cheers David, If that was from my post I suggested the air con, lights,sterio etc be turned on so that the total load will be on when the multimeter is read. The current draw from the air con will include the clutch as Valdez pointed out +the blower fan, fan on the condenser[ if fitted] + the other electrics that run the system [relays, amplifier,temperature control resistor
,etc]. This third reading was where mine crashed. Lot of power going out and not much coming in from the alternator.

 

[bigbrowndog]

Do not attempt to read current draw on your vehicle unless you are using a clamp on ammeter. Your handheld multimeter is likely only capable of reading 10A, and you would need to be in series with the circuit. A clamp on ammeter is really the way to go to measure common high current situations. Plus it is just plain safer.

Really do not understand this at all.
The multimeter setting I laid out above and the test shows the reading in Volts DC not amps???
As Quote 12.4V to 12.6v showed my battery was charged [to me anyway]
My second reading motor running [ idle to 1,500RPM] was 13.4 V= shows slight charge in Volts DC
Third reading with lights, spots, CD&amp +aircon turned on was less than 12.4 Volts DC, this shows the alternator was not able to charge enough to run these accessories.
Probably the reason the battery went flat driving up north?
I would be grateful if you would point out why I need an amp measurement with this test as I check my two cruisers ,subaru and hsv Senator this way as it is difficult to keep all 4 fully charged along with the boat batteries. Regards

 

[Tapage]

Really do not understand this at all.
The multimeter setting I laid out above and the test shows the reading in Volts DC not amps???

yes .. but to read amps you need to read the load .. means to the multimeter to read amps it must be in the middle of the load ( the bridge ) ..

As stated the multimeter ( at least my fluke ) it's very low amps rated .. then if you place it in the middle od the load on your electric system you will blow the multimeter fuse ..

 

[bigbrowndog]

yes .. but to read amps you need to read the load .. means to the multimeter to read amps it must be in the middle of the load ( the bridge ) ..

As stated the multimeter ( at least my fluke ) it's very low amps rated .. then if you place it in the middle od the load on your electric system you will blow the multimeter fuse ..

I really don;t think the old meter is quite ready to blow up yet

So in effect you are pointing out along with the Caveman that the setting on the multimeter I gave [that reads in VOLTD D.C.] the alternator charge at the battery was incorrect. Meaning that this test is not a correct way to see if the alternator is charging.
I was at no stage testing amps or trying to test amperage. The multimeter at this setting only reads VoltsDC.
If you put your multimeter to max out at 10 or 20 amps the multimeter may read amps but can still be producing a very low voltage incapable of running all accessories at high or low RPM.
The test I laid out gives the average 1mechanic like myself a chance to test his alternator with a AU$12.99 Supercheap or US$4.99 Costco multimeter without any fear of stuffing anything or endangering himself.

 

[Captain Caveman]

BigBrownDog,

When you say things such as:

Cheers David, If that was from my post I suggested the air con, lights,sterio etc be turned on so that the total load will be on when the multimeter is read. The current draw from the air con will include the clutch as Valdez pointed out +the blower fan, fan on the condenser[ if fitted] + the other electrics that run the system [relays, amplifier,temperature control resistor
,etc]. This third reading was where mine crashed. Lot of power going out and not much coming in from the alternator.

Guys with my background start to get concerned that damage will occur, or that you are not sure what, precisely, you are referring to. Which is what prompted my warning about measuring current draw. Measuring current is done in series on a DMM. Voltage measurements are made in parallel. Maybe you were thinking voltage drop when a considerable load is applied, I don't know, but your words were indicating a current measurement. If you attempt to measure the current draw under full load, you WILL most likely pop the current protection fuse on your meter.

None of this is meant as a personal attack. You probably already know what I am trying to tell you, but from this post, I felt a precautionary note was in order. What I really don't want is someone with zero electrical knowledge attempt to make current measurements in a high current environment. Maybe if they read my warning, they will think long enough about what they are doing to ask someone in the know!

I wouldn't be so retentive about this, but I know there are a lot of guys that, through this site, are encouraged to turn a wrench or two and fix a circuit here or there.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program!