LX 470 vs Landcruiser: Values According to Joe

[jhanley]

My wife wanted back in a 100, so, after 3 months of hardcore trolling ebay, craigslist and auto trader, I made a deal on 2004 LX470 (140k miles, one owner, 44 service records, new tires, timing belt / water pump done @ 129k). $16,400.00

A couple things I noticed while searching. Landcruisers are worth more than a comparable LX, about 15%. Which is odd, considering most LX's have well documented service histories, and, seem to be in better overall condition.

I'm not a huge fan of all the trees they kill to line the LX cabin, or the headlights. I appreciate the stripped down look of the cruiser, for sure. But, there are advantages to the LX. The ACH is nice to have, especially on a wifey rig. The cabin is opulent, once you sit in it. Whatever that means.

Another huge factor, for us, with super busy lives and 2 kids, is Lexus dealer support. It's phenominal, my local store serves Starbucks, has playrooms for the kids, business center, etc... Highly valuable when I'm busy at work and my wife needs an oil change.

So, what I've deducted, is, the LX should, in all respects, be worth more. Is it just the Landcruiser badge? I'm not a brand whore, but at this point in a 100 series life cycle, I'm buying the best example for the money, not the badge. Really, they're the same truck.

m2cents

 

[mbusa1]

Supply and Demand. Because there are less LC's floating around. More people are not selling them and they were sold less in general in the US. The price goes up.

 

[jhanley]

Supply and Demand. Because there are less LC's floating around. More people are not selling them and they were sold less in general in the US. The price goes up.

Right.

 

[mbusa1]

Right.

I find this stuff super interesting, and maybe it's because I'm an Econ major. On autotrader, there are 200 examples of LC's for sale. While there are 338 examples of LX's for sale in the country. What's even more interesting is that there are a handful of cars (15-20) that are selling above 30k. For a car that cost 68k in 2006 and to experience only 38k in depreciation over a course of 9 years is even more insane.

 

[Dog]

For a car that cost 68k in 2006 and to experience only 38k in depreciation over a course of 9 years is even more insane.

If you think that is impressive, check out the selling prices of used Tacomas.

I suspect more LXs sold new due to the original MSRPs of both rigs. If you have a buyer willing to shell out $60k for a Toyota SUV (and most likely NOT for off-roading, when new), then why wouldn't they pony up a little more for Lexus levels of image and service.

Combine more new LXs being sold, with the strong used market for TLCs to be used for expo / off-roading mods, and I think we can see the market forces at work.

 

[mbusa1]

If you think that is impressive, check out the selling prices of used Tacomas.

I suspect more LXs sold new due to the original MSRPs of both rigs. If you have a buyer willing to shell out $60k for a Toyota SUV (and most likely NOT for off-roading, when new), then why wouldn't they pony up a little more for Lexus levels of image and service.

Combine more new LXs being sold, with the strong used market for TLCs to be used for expo / off-roading mods, and I think we can see the market forces at work.

Many people that bought the LC lived in places such as Nantucket, Hamptons, etc.

In the places I mentioned, people would view the LX as gauche and gaudy and they would never even consider it. Literally it would not even factor into their decision. They probably don't even know it exists.

They buy a Land Cruiser because their father had one and their uncle still has his and their grandfather had an FJ60 and they know they can get 200k miles out of it before the next one. For these people, the "Land Cruiser" model name, and the dependability connotation that comes with it, carries a much higher brand value than "Lexus" ever will.

These are serious old money people — the kind who dress down and keep casual, yet have hundreds of millions invested. They don't give a s*** about Range Rover or Lexus, and they literally couldn't care less about impressing their neighbors. They don't need to. They only think they think about is having a product that will work forever with minimal distraction and interruption to their lives.

Toyota keeps this car around because it would be insane to abandon what is undoubtedly one of the highest wealth demographics in the entire car industry — exotics included.

 

[jhanley]

I think we're straying from the original point. Forget what these things cost new, and who was buying them. I think, for the most part, mudders aren't in that demographic (a house in the hamptons?).

Bottom line, I'm a value guy. I started searching for a Landcruiser, but, found the LX market had much more to offer e.g. better service history, inventory, dealer support and most importantly, purchase prIce.

For trucks that are 90% identical, it was no brainer. Of course, I would've bought a landcruiser, if given the option. But, after 90 days of shopping, the LX is the better value.

 

[Xetabur]

I find this stuff super interesting, and maybe it's because I'm an Econ major. On autotrader, there are 200 examples of LC's for sale. While there are 338 examples of LX's for sale in the country. What's even more interesting is that there are a handful of cars (15-20) that are selling above 30k. For a car that cost 68k in 2006 and to experience only 38k in depreciation over a course of 9 years is even more insane.

If you think that's nuts, I can sell my FJ Cruiser for more than I paid for it new.

 

[mbusa1]

If you think that's nuts, I can sell my FJ Cruiser for more than I paid for it new.

That's why you should always buy FJ's, Tacoma's or Tundra's new.

 

[Topmounter]

The LX gets lumped in with the QX80 and Escalade by most folks. The Landcruiser seems to have the reputation (and rightfully so) as the equally capable, but far more reliable alternative to a Range Rover. Toyota seems to have done a good job targeting both demographics with the LC platform. Personally I'm not a fan of the Lexus brand for a variety of reasons, but the main reason the LX doesn't interest me (and why I would pay a premium for a "Land Cruiser") is because I would get sick of having to explain to people that "It's just like a Landcruiser, but...". Explaining to people why I won't be "upgrading to a Sequoia" (ever) is laborious enough now.

 

[mbusa1]

For trucks that are 90% identical, it was no brainer. Of course, I would've bought a landcruiser, if given the option. But, after 90 days of shopping, the LX is the better value.

Agreed. The LX does get a bit of 'mall cruiser' reputation. But after driving my new LX about 1300 miles in 10 days. I have to say that the cabin is a great place to be. Even though it is scary the AHC might fail and the Nakamichi radio is broken.

 

[Xetabur]

^My thoughts exactly.

 

[jhanley]

The LX gets lumped in with the QX80 and Escalade by most folks. The Landcruiser seems to have the reputation (and rightfully so) as the equally capable, but far more reliable alternative to a Range Rover. Toyota seems to have done a good job targeting both demographics with the LC platform. Personally I'm not a fan of the Lexus brand for a variety of reasons, but the main reason the LX doesn't interest me (and why I would pay a premium for a "Land Cruiser") is because I would get sick of having to explain to people that "It's just like a Landcruiser, but...". Explaining to people why I won't be "upgrading to a Sequoia" (ever) is laborious enough now.

Stop caring what people think. It's bad for your constitution.

 

[jhanley]

If you think that is impressive, check out the selling prices of used Tacomas.

I suspect more LXs sold new due to the original MSRPs of both rigs. If you have a buyer willing to shell out $60k for a Toyota SUV (and most likely NOT for off-roading, when new), then why wouldn't they pony up a little more for Lexus levels of image and service.

Combine more new LXs being sold, with the strong used market for TLCs to be used for expo / off-roading mods, and I think we can see the market forces at work.

Tacoma's are outrageous, I agree. Although, it's indicative of any Toyota 4x4. I've heard people say the same about 4runners, tundra's etc....

 

[stonepa]

Many people that bought the LC lived in places such as Nantucket, Hamptons, etc.

In the places I mentioned, people would view the LX as gauche and gaudy and they would never even consider it. Literally it would not even factor into their decision. They probably don't even know it exists.

They buy a Land Cruiser because their father had one and their uncle still has his and their grandfather had an FJ60 and they know they can get 200k miles out of it before the next one. For these people, the "Land Cruiser" model name, and the dependability connotation that comes with it, carries a much higher brand value than "Lexus" ever will.

These are serious old money people — the kind who dress down and keep casual, yet have hundreds of millions invested. They don't give a **** about Range Rover or Lexus, and they literally couldn't care less about impressing their neighbors. They don't need to. They only think they think about is having a product that will work forever with minimal distraction and interruption to their lives.

Toyota keeps this car around because it would be insane to abandon what is undoubtedly one of the highest wealth demographics in the entire car industry — exotics included.

There are maybe 50 of these people in the whole country. From personal experience most of their peer's drive Volvo, Mercedes, or BMW wagons rather than any SUV. I see them all the time.

When I replaced my 100 after 16 years I bought an LX570. Dealer experience was infinitely better than what I had experienced with multiple Toyota dealers. Wasn't too worried about the brand but I couldn't find a new LC around here anyway.

 

[stonepa]

I wasn't aware, 'til now, that "they" are logging plastic trees.

Steve

The 'wood' in a Lexus may be finished in a way that makes it look like plastic but it most certainly is wood.

 

[stonepa]

Stop caring what people think. It's bad for your constitution.

Amen. Although every one of my friends and family meets the target demographic for a LX570 or Land Cruiser not a single one of them knows what either car is. Which is fine by me.

 

[jhanley]

There are maybe 50 of these people in the whole country. From personal experience most of their peer's drive Volvo, Mercedes, or BMW wagons rather than any SUV. I see them all the time.

When I replaced my 100 after 16 years I bought an LX570. Dealer experience was infinitely better than what I had experienced with multiple Toyota dealers. Wasn't too worried about the brand but I couldn't find a new LC around here anyway.

Agreed ^^^

Now, let's get back to these "Hamptons / Nantucket people". They live in homes the size of high schools, expose 10 carrot diamonds, and name their kids "Porscha"? Now they're worried about a Lexus being gaudy. I think not.

 

[mcgaskins]

I think one of the reasons people prefer an LC over an LX is that they know the LX has AHC which may need to be either fixed or replaced if it breaks. One of the main appeals of buying a Toyota product is simple reliability and the complexity of the Lexus suspension is something that people don't want to think about or mess with on an 8-17 year old truck. When I was looking a few years ago, the LX was cheaper to purchase by around $2k vis a vis to an LC, which is approximately how much it costs to have a shop swap an AHC suspension out with an OME traditional suspension, so I think the market is pricing in that potential repair. Also generally speaking mods are more difficult with an LX because you have to worry about the AHC lines in relation to sliders (unless/until they get removed), and some front bumpers don't interface properly with the hood/grill difference on an LX. And as much as it shouldn't matter, I think there is something to be said for having to explain yourself every time you stop on the trail with a group of people offroading what the LX is and why you're wheeling it. Nearly every time I've done a trail run with my LC I still have to explain to guys when we stop for lunch what the 100 is all about (when I'm not wheeling with my local Toyota club of course), and that would be a much more frequent and difficult conversation if I had a stylized "L" on the front end.

 

[El Cid]

I find this stuff super interesting, and maybe it's because I'm an Econ major. On autotrader, there are 200 examples of LC's for sale. While there are 338 examples of LX's for sale in the country. What's even more interesting is that there are a handful of cars (15-20) that are selling above 30k. For a car that cost 68k in 2006 and to experience only 38k in depreciation over a course of 9 years is even more insane.

f you took the data and looked at the dispersion, variation, average/median price, min-max, etc, you'd know exactly what the amount of difference would be in aftermarket prices. But as others stated, it's all supply and demand. And the price is thus affected because of two other factors
a) Consumers are fickle. People(ok, women) will buy cars based on color, cupholders, or the fact their neighbor purchased a vehicle.
b) Manufacturers have enormous difficulty forecasting long-term demand.

So maybe the real question is, "How is it the manufacturers don't profit more from manufacturing vehicles whose vehicles hold their value so well? Can they be that mispriced? Underproduced? Manufacturers ability to forecast demand and make production commitments is nebulous at best. Largely due to enormous fixed costs. (approx price of a new auto plan is probably $1 bil)
Lexus is the luxury product and Toyota is mass market. The crux of it is the consumer definition of luxury. Wood panel finish? Panel trim on the door? What does 'luxury' mean to consumers beyond just interior finish?

The truth is that 'luxury' is probably more connected to 'new' and 'interior comfort,' than say...design quality or reliability.

This is an enthusiast web site full of very well informed users. But the rest of the world is buying because they see gold-plated cupholders.

Consumers buying used don't buy into the same notion of luxury that new users do. That's probably why they'd prefer a low-frills vehicle over an aged luxury vehicle.