Low Cost Low Gears

[Fast Eddy]

I spend a great deal of time daydreaming about lower gears. Maybe I'm not the only one? I went through the tech links, but I didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a stock '78 fj40 with a 2f and h42. My goal is to keep it as stock as possible. I'll put in an Aussie locker soon.

I can't spend a lot of money on the problem. I kinda like the Marks 4wd 3:1 gears, but then I need to source a split case and deal with the e-brake (right?), and it's $1300+shipping from Oz. Their bolt-on cruiser crawler underdrive is sweet too, but it's $2400+shipping and is air-actuated.

I see http://www.cruiserparts.net has an H41 w/case for $550 shipping included. This is my price range.

If I'm going to do that, I'd like to get a 3-speed t-case at the same time. I see on ebay that joetlc sells a 3-speed t-case to 4-speed adapter that includes a gear. Is that the input gear? It's different then, and a 3-speed case won't just bolt up to an h41?

In the tech links there's an allusion to installing 3 speed t-case gears into a 4 speed t-case. Anyone have more info?

Split cases are stronger, so I understand. Will they bolt-up, including the e-brake? Can I swap in lower gears that aren't > $1k?

I'll read more before spending any money. I didn't think anyone would mind discussing it.

I'm going to try to spend less than $1000 total. I'd also like to use my stock driveshafts.

If I won the lottery I'd do something different, but I didn't.

 

[fj40charles]

How about installing an Orion transfer case to get the lower gear ratio?

 

[Fast Eddy]

How about installing an Orion transfer case to get the lower gear ratio?

Reasonable option, but it's about double my budget. In high range it doesn't do anything, whereas the h41/3-speed t-case option provides almost as low of gears, and lower gears in high and low range.

It has the benefit of being stronger. I'd only have to break down once to make it worth the extra money.

 

[Poser]

Low Cost Low Gears

Do not exist.





It is the same as going fast, it costs a lot of money.



You can do little things now that will cost you more than what you really think, just like EVERY project does, and not really get you to where you want to be…


----OR----

You can save your cash, and install a real gearing option, like a 465 transmission, or an H41 and an Orion.


You cannot get crawler gears for split cases that are inexpensive.

You cannot get a parking brake set up for a split case that is cheap. Most conversion parts are over the amount of your set budget.

 

[Poser]

In high range it doesn't do anything, whereas the h41/3-speed t-case option provides almost as low of gears, and lower gears in high and low range.

Huh?




I thought this was about low gear options…


If you are now looking at trying to do multiple things with your truck, better get a five gallon bucket of Benjamin’s for a good start.

 

[Poser]

H42/4spdcase/reargear 3.5x1.9x4.1= 27:1

H42/3spdcase/reargear 3.5x2.3x4.1=33:1

H41/4spdcase/reargear 4.9x1.9x4.1=38:1

H41/3spdcase/reargear 4.9x2.3x4.1=46:1


H42/Orion/reargear 3.5x4x4.1=57:1

H41/Orion/reargear 4.9x4x4.1=80:1





Me-

I would install an H41 and a 4:1 Orion and not look back...

 

[Degnol]

Do not exist.



.

Low Cost Gearing = Free Pussy........you are gonna pay fer it one way or another


And to think this adds to my post count!!!



Poser built me an Orion/H42 and I love it. Cry once...big, but just once.

GL

Ed

 

[Fast Eddy]

H42/4spdcase/reargear 3.5x1.9x4.1= 27:1

H42/3spdcase/reargear 3.5x2.3x4.1=33:1

H41/4spdcase/reargear 4.9x1.9x4.1=38:1

H41/3spdcase/reargear 4.9x2.3x4.1=46:1


H42/Orion/reargear 3.5x4x4.1=57:1

H41/Orion/reargear 4.9x4x4.1=80:1





Me-

I would install an H41 and a 4:1 Orion and not look back...

While reading stuff, I came across this MAF oil return kit: http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/oilreturnkittransmissiontransfercase.htm

"A common problem on pre 1988 Land Cruisers is the failure of the oil seal between the transmission and transfer case. When this occurs the transfer case tends to pump gear oil into the transmission, starving the transfer case of oil. This kit connects the two filler holes, so the transmission can return oil to the transfer case as needed. "

I mentioned in my Surf&Turf post that I thought I ran my t-case out of oil in the last miles out of Pozo, but I never saw a puddle. I also remember when I filled it before I left that the transmission had enough oil that it spilled out when I opened the drain plug.

I guess I'd better take out my transmission in any case. [sigh]

An H41/Orion/3.73 is a 73:1 total ratio and 10% overdrive from what I have now. The 3.73s would put the compound low in a better range compared with 4.11s..

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Fast Eddy-I'll assume you want to go slower on a budget. The all time, best deal, ease of install etc. is an SM420 + 3 speed transfer case. You give up the nice shifting but poorly geared H42, and get a very deep low range, and a nearly bullet proof tranny. Working yourself, I'll bet you could do it for less than $500.

3 speed cases come up fairly frequently, and Sm420 can be had for as low as $50 in the for sale section. Then you need an adapter plate, and some seals, a t-case brace and you are there.

If cost were no object, then an H41 + Orion would be nice, and an SM420 + Orion would be seriously slow. Both options are a lot more money.

BTW-I've used that oil return line on both my 40 (when it had an H42) and on my 60 (when it had an H42). It's good insurance in my opinion, and that oil transfer problem is almost universal in older Land Cruisers. It can buy you time before you fix the problem for real.

 

[andrewfarmer]

put 25" tyres on it

what ratio are your diffs?

 

[honk]

what ratio are your diffs?

I was gonna' say - about the cheapest low gearing would be an axle ratio change.

The H41 swap is good but be sure to get a transmission from a gas powered cruiser if yours is gas powered. H41's that came in diesel powered trucks have a different input shaft that won't work.

 

[Poser]

An H41/Orion/3.73 is a 73:1 total ratio and 10% overdrive from what I have now. The 3.73s would put the compound low in a better range compared with 4.11s.. [/SIZE][/FONT]

So you have a 1978 that someone swapped 3.70 gears into the diffs?

The 3.73s would put the compound low in a better range compared with 4.11s.. [/SIZE][/FONT]

I guess I am not following this statement at all...

What do you mean by 'better range'?


If the initial goal or question of this thread was low gears, installing 3.70 gears and wanting to go slow off road do not go hand in hand, and would not be better than 4.11's...



Have you decided to take this thread another direction and talk about street performance now?


Just trying to follow along…

 

[Poser]

I was gonna' say - about the cheapest low gearing would be an axle ratio change.

New gear sets and bearings installed in the diff, not even installed in the axle, are not that cheap....

 

[UpsideDown]

I'd go for an SM420 and a 3-speed 'case...

 

[Fast Eddy]

If the initial goal or question of this thread was low gears, installing 3.70 gears and wanting to go slow off road do not go hand in hand, and would not be better than 4.11's...



Have you decided to take this thread another direction and talk about street performance now?/quote]

The title is low gears, but street performance is always a consideration. I'd like to be able to enjoy my truck a couple times a week instead of a couple times a year when I have a weekend to drag it up to the mountains. It has the stock 4.11s in it now.

I do not need to have the lowest gears on the west coast, but I'm willing to put some $$ and effort into lower than I have now. If I got lower rpms on the freeway for not much extra $$, I'd consider it.

 

[Fast Eddy]

I was gonna' say - about the cheapest low gearing would be an axle ratio change.

I can see my title should have been 'Low Cost Wide Range Gearing with Low Gears' or something.

I want it all. I want lower gears without giving up anything on the freeway, or giving up my sweet clutch-optional Toy tranny, and I'd like around twice as low of a gear as I have now. I confused the issue a bit by musing about taking back some of that 80:1 with higher thirds for the freeway.

From Poser's list above there are three options I'd consider:

H41/3spdcase/reargear 4.9x2.3x4.1=46:1 = $1000
H42/Orion/reargear 3.5x4x4.1=57:1 = $1600
H41/Orion/reargear 4.9x4x4.1=80:1 = $2150

The prices are guesstimates. I know there will be incidentals that will cost hundreds more. I have parts I can sell to offset some costs.

Option 2 is attractive because I have an uber-low-mileage H42 sitting around. Once I had the Orion in hand, I could upgrade the tranny later.

Option 1 kinda sucks because I still have to mess around inside the t-case and the end result is not going to be as reliable. When I posted this thread, I hadn't considered the strength of the final result much.

Anyone know if it's possible to order a new H41 from anywhere?

 

[rusty_tlc]

I can see my title should have been 'Low Cost Wide Range Gearing with Low Gears' or something.

I want it all. I want lower gears without giving up anything on the freeway, or giving up my sweet clutch-optional Toy tranny, and I'd like around twice as low of a gear as I have now. I confused the issue a bit by musing about taking back some of that 80:1 with higher thirds for the freeway.

From Poser's list above there are three options I'd consider:

H41/3spdcase/reargear 4.9x2.3x4.1=46:1 = $1000
H42/Orion/reargear 3.5x4x4.1=57:1 = $1600
H41/Orion/reargear 4.9x4x4.1=80:1 = $2150

The prices are guesstimates. I know there will be incidentals that will cost hundreds more. I have parts I can sell to offset some costs.

Option 2 is attractive because I have an uber-low-mileage H42 sitting around. Once I had the Orion in hand, I could upgrade the tranny later.

Option 1 kinda sucks because I still have to mess around inside the t-case and the end result is not going to be as reliable. When I posted this thread, I hadn't considered the strength of the final result much.

Anyone know if it's possible to order a new H41 from anywhere?

Given the new boundry conditions there is another option. H41/Ranger Over Drive/Orion/reargear 4.9x1x4x4.1=80:1 or 1x.73x1x4.1=2.99:1 $2150 + $1500= $3650 but it would also require a V8 conversion.

This would give you deep gears off road and tall highway gears.


My advice is to learn to enjoy life in the slow lane. I have been commuting in my 40 for many years, sure people pass me a lot. But guess what? I usually catch up at the next traffic light/slow down/car wreck.

 

[Fast Eddy]

it would also require a V8 conversion.

That would be a whole different truck, which is not out of the question long term. This one's all Toyota, and staying that way.

This would give you deep gears off road and tall highway gears.

My advice is to learn to enjoy life in the slow lane. I have been commuting in my 40 for many years, sure people pass me a lot. But guess what? I usually catch up at the next traffic light/slow down/car wreck.

That's my experience with bicycle commuting as well. On my 25 mi commute the avg 2nd lane speed is over 80. I get up to around 75, and I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it could be different. Toyota went to 3.73s to make them more freeway friendly, which has pros and cons.

 

[Poser]

Save your money for an Orion.


Put an H41 in later.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Cheap gearing DOES in fact exist if you're willing to do some foot work.

I did my SM420 conversion in my FJ40 for less than $600 including a new old stock SM420.

It doubled my gear ratio in low range while not affecting high range.
And it was an almost 100% bolt in affair (I had to fabricate the shifter linkage, and lengthen the shift fork on the shifter by 3/4").
-No drive shaft mods
-No skid plate mods
-no tranny hump mods

The truck drives very well on and off road.
I might also mention that I daily drive my FJ40, AND drive it to the trail head.

I have absolutly NO regrets from doing this conversion.

Except not doing it sooner.