Loose steering and excessive road response.

[EsbenDenmark]

I have renewed most of the steering and bearings on my 1995 hzj75.

Wheel bearings, knuckle bearings, axle seal, tie rod ends, power steering fluid and so on.

It's made a huge difference and everything is super smooth, but I feel like the is way to much road response. Like I can feel every pothole in the road. I feel this as the steering is alive and the road pushes back.
There is no high-speed wobble at all.

1. I did not adjust preload when rebuilding the steering knuckle. Just put in the same size shims as before. I used a TerrainTamer knuckle rebuild kit

2. Can I be a worn out steering damper?

Any advice is recommended.

 

[sodafeld1]

Quite a few factors with steering.
did you pre lube your tie rod ends before installing?
always a nice comfort to check preload on the steer knuckles with the sst or equivalent?
toe in?
did you fiddle with the steer box adjuster? If so, correctly?
steer damper does not do much I believe imo.

I just redid all of mine too, as it felt 'loosey goosey', wanted to dart towards any pot hole at any given chance. Was fine (ish) on the highway but odd driving slow.

Thing is , when the wheels are off and you do the knuckles, tie rods, knuckles and all the other steer components at the same time, each is a factor which may contribute to the unusual steering, which you have introduced all at the same time.

For me, re-sealing the steer pump (discovered only two bolts holding it from pvo), setting and measuring proper preload and centering on the knuckles knowing you nailed it (full range of shims is handy), tyre balanced at the shop (they were out, a lead lug weight did fall off in the bush) , correct tyre pressure (not too high, bottom of tyre should look like a beginners beer belly) and toe in (5mm works for me), eventually sorted it out. Takes some time redoing things. Worth it.

I guess pros would do one thing at a time ,take her for a test drive fast and slow, then you know what is the culprit.

I find good return towards center of the steering wheel a good gauge after turning and then the natural straightening up whilst driving. The pump should push the wheels back if your steer gear is at a happy setting, like clockwork. Let alone holding straight at speed.

I cringe a bit when folks say to just tighten the steer gear box, they can be damaged if un-thoughtful. You should loosen it first, turn the wheels then gradually tighten due to the shuttlecock design of the adjuster. Imo, just tight enough so there is no play in the steer wheel and no bind in the gear the full steering travel, left to right and back again.
cheers

 

[EsbenDenmark]

Thanks.. sounds like I should check the knuckle bearing preload.
If this is too loose can I then remove 1 thin shim too and bottom without taking anything else apart other than the steering arm and bolts?

 

[kgrove]

steer damper does not do much I believe imo.

IMO depends as I was slightly unclear on the OP's description of the problem. I replaced my steering dampener last week and the steering is "smoother". Before, with the 26 yr old dampener in place, the steering wheel would "kick" noticeably if I hit a bump that wasn't straight on. For instance pulling into my driveway and going over the rounded curb at an angle would cause a strong, sharp movement of the steering wheel as the curb tried to pull the front wheel. After the steering stabilizer, those kind of movements are much more gentle. I'm not sure if that fits the OPs description of basically too much road feedback. My bad steering dampener didn't make my steering feel loose or uncontrolled, but it did provide too much feedback and loss of control when hitting bumps with one wheel at a time.

You could check by inspecting the steering stabilizer and see if it's leaking. You could take it step further and remove it to manually pull it in and out to see if it's providing much dampening. Mine was a pain in the a$$ to remove - both bolts needed a tie rod end remover and quite a bit of force to free the tapered bolt.

Hope this helps.

 

[EsbenDenmark]

IMO depends as I was slightly unclear on the OP's description of the problem. I replaced my steering dampener last week and the steering is "smoother". Before, with the 26 yr old dampener in place, the steering wheel would "kick" noticeably if I hit a bump that wasn't straight on. For instance pulling into my driveway and going over the rounded curb at an angle would cause a strong, sharp movement of the steering wheel as the curb tried to pull the front wheel. After the steering stabilizer, those kind of movements are much more gentle. I'm not sure if that fits the OPs description of basically too much road feedback. My bad steering dampener didn't make my steering feel loose or uncontrolled, but it did provide too much feedback and loss of control when hitting bumps with one wheel at a time.

You could check by inspecting the steering stabilizer and see if it's leaking. You could take it step further and remove it to manually pull it in and out to see if it's providing much dampening. Mine was a pain in the a$$ to remove - both bolts needed a tie rod end remover and quite a bit of force to free the tapered bolt.

Hope this helps.

Yeah that is exactly what I feel. Like someone is yanking in the steering wheel when hitte a rut or bump.

 

[kgrove]

Yeah that is exactly what I feel. Like someone is yanking in the steering wheel when hitte a rut or bump.

Sounds to me like a weak steering dampener. Another thing you could do to narrow it down would be to jack up both front wheels. If there seems to be play in the wheels themselves when you pull them back and forth, that could be "looseness" in the bearings, bushings, etc. If the wheels seem tight and there isn't slack in the steering system, then it's even more likely that it's just a bad steering dampener. This could be good news for you... steering dampeners aren't that expensive and are much easier to replace than adjusting shims, bearings, etc.

 

[coldtaco]

Sounds like the toe in/out is out of wack. This been checked? Slight toe in does wonders

 

[sodafeld1]

apologies for my bad writing! steer damper does do something, it dampens. Mine was fairly new and functioning fine as a damper, some folks claim it masks things. It was other more initial kinetic things for me.

To do the knuckles proper you need the tool. I also have to admit I stuffed up the initial knuckle rebuild and muddled the shims, you can not guess them. I also replaced the knuckle studs for the upgraded ones, they can tend to wiggle loose.

If your damper is old, by all means, replace.
Toe in, tie rods (do they wiggle up and down) are first and easy.
Probably knuckle and steer gear is next, take time.

 

[EsbenDenmark]

Sounds like the toe in/out is out of wack. This been checked? Slight toe in does wonders

I have done toe in my self but haven't had it professionally checked.
It should have a slight toe in.

 

[EsbenDenmark]

apologies for my bad writing! steer damper does do something, it dampens. Mine was fairly new and functioning fine as a damper, some folks claim it masks things. It was other more initial kinetic things for me.

To do the knuckles proper you need the tool. I also have to admit I stuffed up the initial knuckle rebuild and muddled the shims, you can not guess them. I also replaced the knuckle studs for the upgraded ones, they can tend to wiggle loose.

If your damper is old, by all means, replace.
Toe in, tie rods (do they wiggle up and down) are first and easy.
Probably knuckle and steer gear is next, take time.

Ok.. ordered a new steering damper today. I am 99% sure that is it the original from 1995.

Let's see what happens then..then I can have toe in done professionally.

Then knuckle bearings. I really hope that is not the problem.

 

[sodafeld1]

If 1995 damper, worth changing, but if it wasn't a problem before, probably is not the cause now.

Toe in, is worth doing yourself and quite easy to learn how to do. Worthwhile, as likely you shall have to do it again and again over time, every time you work on knuckles or tie rods. Look it up here on mud.

If you also learn the knuckle preload with the sst or copycat tool you shall find it is quite easy and most satisfying. Also on mud. Not daunting at all besides the cost of the knuckle kit in comparison to paying someone else who doesn't love your cruiser like do.

If you are aiming at keeping your cruiser for 20-30 years, the tools and knowledge is a small investment. Close to everything on old cruisers are possible to diy, why they are ace! These cars, the era of integrity and the combination of resources of excellent manuals and ih8mud makes me feel we are on a very good thing.

I think I experienced close to something you are going through, if you persevere , get through each aspect you worked on you shall get on top of it. Lots of trials and test drives. Once you nail it it is obvious and fortifies your relationship with your cruiser.

Also, everything you do to your car changes things a little. If it feels smoother, that alone is a change which you get use to whilst driving. In a month of driving , you won't remember what it felt like before your work, as one adapts to how the vehicle performs at the moment. Steer darting is something to fix though.

 

[Squash]

Pull the cotter pins on both ends of the relay rod and adjust the slotted screw.
Use a big wide screwdriver or flat end of pry bar.
It's a good idea to lift the front end and manually check these joints for slop. Do not over tighten and be sure to grease.

 

[EsbenDenmark]

A small update.
I installed a OldManEmu steering damper. It made a HUGE difference! So even though my knuckle bearing preload are most likely a bit to the loose side I now have an acceptable steering.

Also had my toe in adjustment checked professionally. Amazingly I had been pretty close and only made fine adjustment to hit a slightly more aggressive toe in at 0.10 degrees compared to the 0.8 degrees in the manual.
But didn't feel any difference at all.