Looking to buy - Pros / Cons

[SOCALFJ]

Hello everyone. Well im a newb to the board but not to 4 wheeling and off road. I recently got out of rockcrawling type wheeling and now I'm looking to get into Expedition type wheeling and have narrowed it down to two vehicles. Before you flame me, believe me , im already leaning to the Cruiser side for many reasons.

1993-1997 Land Cruiser FJ80 or Mid to late 90's Discovery

Im looking to spend anywhere from 10k-13k. Here are the things i see that the Cruiser kicks the Discovery's A$$ so far.

Basic Reliability. - I've owned a 22RE 4 Banger Toyota truck in the past and never had any problems with it. Regardless of this or not, if someone these days can't see that Toyota's are extremely reliable then they need not to be buying a rig. Now, what about DISCO's? Are they reliable? I have no clue? What have you guys heard?

Parts Availability - Toyota parts, a dime a dozen! You can get anything you need at the local parts store easily. Junkyards, online, local papers.. etc. and they're somewhat inexpensive. DISCO's? What the hell do you do when you break out on the trail? Are you screwed? So far i have seen that all parts at local stores are "special order" and "double" the price. OR you have to go the dealer for everything. This isn't a good thing when you want to use the rig for expedition purposes. What do these guys do? Spend a fortune and have a parts chase truck behind them when they head out?

Value Decrease - Ok,, so why are the DISCO's so damn cheap? There must be a reason? So far i see that for around the 10k price tag, you can get a late 90's early 2000 DISCO with under 100k miles. These cars were 40k+ new? What happened? That makes me scared.(not for resale value, but for problem issues) It tells me that no one wants them? Toyota's hold their value very well as everyone knows. Which tells me their reliable and in demand with less problems(which i already know).

Well so far as you guys can see, im almost 100% Toyota ... but i just wanted to hear your guy's view on it. I see so many damn DISCO's being used for expedition, but i think that's becuase in other countries they're so cheap. Here in the USA it seems silly to go the DISCO route?...?

I appreciate any light you guys can shed on this subject.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I thought about a Disco for a while... then I started talking to people who own them. I do not want to own a veh that is so undependable.

 

[mabrodis]

This is marginal tech...probably should be moved to chat...

What expeditions do you see using any Land Rover products that was purchased by someone for that expedition? Every one I can remember seeing was a Land Rover sponsored event, a Land Rover team was given totally free vehicles and they had to use Land Rover vehicles ofcourse since the entire event was sponsored and paid for by Land Rover.

As a better test of who would buy a Land Rover for a real expedition, lookup how many teams that competed in the Paris-to-Dakar rally drove Land Rover vehicles...I doubt very many if any, that should tell you something, not sure where you could find the data on that, but I would guess someplace online would have a list of entries.

 

[SOCALFJ]

Thanks for the response Chad. So they said they're rigs were in the shop a lot? Did they even wheel them? This is the other thing that scares me.. if these Disco's are breaking down all the time just Mall Crawlin then... how are they gonna handle long trip to Baja?

 

[SOCALFJ]

Mabrodis, I apologize for not putting in Chat.. You have a very good point about the sponsorship. I agree with you 100%. Makes sense. So people that use them to wheel here in the states, just have money to burn?

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Thanks for the response Chad. So they said they're rigs were in the shop a lot? Did they even wheel them? This is the other thing that scares me.. if these Disco's are breaking down all the time just Mall Crawlin then... how are they gonna handle long trip to Baja?

The majority are only street driven and a couple are wheeling buddies. All of them have had issues. They all really like their rigs, but they are money pits and the stuff that breaks is usually obscure stuff IMO.

 

[SOCALFJ]

So it sounds like you have to be "pawpa fat bucks" to play with the Disco crowd and like un-reliability and obscure parts? I can see this isn't going to take long for me to fully realize staying away from a headache Disco.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I like them... I just can't afford to keep them on the road.

 

[NorCalDoug]

I think Disco's are okay. If I owned one, I think I'd be a better mechanic by now.

I have friends who currently own or have owned Land/Range Rovers. The first thing I ask the current owners when we talk cars/trucks is so...what did you get fixed recently. The funny thing is, they always have something to report. They ask me the same thing, and aside from maintenance (i.e. brakes, oil, fluids, etc.), all I have to tell them about are the mods I've made -- new lights, new 12v outlets, etc.

Off road, they're okay wheelers. There was one particular year, recently -- I don't recall which one, but the Discos for that year did not have a center diff lock. I'd keep away from that year.

 

[mabrodis]

As far as wheeling them, my brother has a '95 Disco, 33" tires, ARB lockers front and rear, sliders, bumpers, etc, etc...it's a ok vehicle, has been fine for him, nothing has broke, he has wheeled the crap out of it, but it's not a 'great' vehicle. Everything leaks, I mean everything, t/c, tranny, engine, power-steering, radiator, diffs, gas tank (not kidding, there is a recall currently that replaces the gas-tank and all breather hardware, I think it's for every DiscoI ever made!).

He got it for a good deal, 4 years ago it was $15K, seems like alot now, but that was a great deal then, actually might have been 5 yrs ago, in either case it had ~$12K in accessories on it, all Safari Gard suspension, Warn winch, etc...

I think the knock against them as far as weak is over-rated, my brother's has not been weak, not alot of power, but hasn't broken any axles in spots that were insanely nasty and where 2 jxxps (one TJ and one Grand Cherokee) both broke front axles, even with his 5000 rpms to stall clutch work, it made it through no problem, which was impressive.

I think the biggest issue is they are not well designed, on paper they look great, but then you start working on things and realize the e-brake setup is a bit cheesy, brakes are a bit cheesy, suspension is descent at times, but there is always something that makes you think they didn't really think some of this through.

As for parts, I don't know why you think Land Rover parts are harder to get than Toyota, I would say that is completely backwards. My brother can go to any of 3 LR dealerships and buy damn near anything for that vehicle, because everything breaks and leaks, so the dealerships have tons of items instock. Whereas for a Cruiser, good luck, most dealerships would be lucky to have anything other than a oil and air filter...not kidding, new parts are so rarely on Toyota vehicles the dealerships I've seen have little in terms of extra parts (maybe they do for vehicles like minivans or sedans, not sure)...

Good Luck...

 

[Ocelot]

Another point worth mentioning is that you can get FR/RR diff locks from the factory on a toyota and that you cant on a disco

 

[ginericLC]

Mark,

Try and get those Land Rover parts in states like Wyoming, Montana, or even Idaho (outiside of Boise). Since there aren't dealers nobody stocks them It always amazes me when I'm in Jackson Hole how many cars there are there that have no service. Jaguar owners in Idaho used to pay $380 for an oil change but that included a trip via truck to the Jag dealer in SLC. I'm serious. Now we have a Jaguar dealer. What I didn't know is some things like oil filters are dealer only items and a lot of dealers won't sell them to you uninstalled.

I have over 206k on my 94 80. It has never had any service done to it. Just maintainence. So it has never needed an unscheduled part. And if it did I feel confident that I could limp it to a Toyota dealer. Well, maybe not in Wyoming? But in the other more rural states finding a dealer isn't a problem.

Eric V.

 

[ryanjl]

Off road, they're okay wheelers. There was one particular year, recently -- I don't recall which one, but the Discos for that year did not have a center diff lock. I'd keep away from that year.

It was more than one year, it was all Disco II models up intil 2004. (1999 - 2003).

I used to own a 95 Disco that had about 20K on it when I bought it. Here is but a smattering of the problems I had in the 1.5 years (15,000 miles) I owned it:

Already had an engine knock, due to a worn cam button. Fairly common I was told.
Electrical problems galore, including power windows, cruise control, windshield washer fluid motor, brake sensor switch that allows you to put it into gear, anti lock brakes,.... and some other stuff I cant remember right now.
Rust was already forming (this was in 99) on the rear door hinges, door sills, and roof rack.

I took a real bath on it when I sold it to drive my 83 FJ60 full time, which proved to be a far more reliable vehicle.

On the other end of the spectrum, I've owned my 95 Land Cruiser since 2000, gone from 75K to almost 130K, and, in that time, the only reliability issue I've had is starter contacts.

I'll let you decide which vehicle I'd rather be out on an expedition in.


Even aside from reliability, there's also durability. Discos have notoriously weak axles and diffs (axles are 24 or 25 spline, I think, whereas FJ and FZJ80s are 33 spline), as well as smaller birfield (CV) joints than the 80 series. Even though the Disco may look smaller, both vehicles weigh about the same.

The only thing that the Disco really has going for it is the arbitrary aesthetics value, but "looks" wont get you out of the desert.

 

[SOCALFJ]

Wow you guys are giving me so much feedback it's amazing. It's hard to squeak a word out of the Disco guys on another board. It's almost like they don't want to let people into their "click" or something..... Keep this going! Thanks for all the responses so far.

 

[speyrod]

Think of owning the LR as and experinece and you'll be fine. I looked at a RR while I was considering what to get. The thing that turned me off was they expect to pay $1,000 to $1,500 for annual service costs, that and premium fuel. My sister inlaw had one that always had issues, nothing extreme until about 125k but by that time it looked like crap. I was recently in Scotland Salmon fishing and a friend there has a 2003 RR. Well let me tell you it squeeked and rattled worse than my 95 H**P GC. He also has a issue with getting rubber (18") that is not a perf tire and gets stuck relativly easy.

 

[LandyLover]

Lucas Prince of Darkness was in charge of the electrics for a few years, not sure when Bosch took over but I think it was in the late 90s. A buddy bought a new Disco in 2001 and he loved it when it worked but the stupid air suspension gave him grief on a road trip and he had to get it fixed ASAP.

To be honest ive never seen any Land Rover off road, only at Starbucks. From what Ive heard they wheel not bad off road because they're flexy but the bottom line is THEY ARE NOT DEPENDABLE. Thats worth more to me than a truck that is good off road that isnt dependable. But you wanna know the best part of this? The Cruiser is wicked offroad, even with open diffs, and its more reliable than anything else...

LandRover = Form
LandCruiser = Form and Function

Later

BTW, there has been much discussion in the past on RR and LC, and some pics of drivetrain comparisons and vids, etc. Do a search

 

[SOCALFJ]

Thanks for the tip LandLover.. **Search in progress**

 

[doughboy]

My Daddy has a 1997 Disco i like it its nice but its weak IT'S NO LC. He broke the Ring and Pion twice wheeling in moab. Buy a Land Cruiser you'll love it.

 

[Grouseman]

Socal,

About 18 months ago I was trying to decide the same thing as you are now. Which one Cruiser or Discovery. After extensive research I concluded the Cruiser is waaaaaaaaaaaay more reliable than the Land Rover. The Rover has the cool look I know, but it will be a pain in the butt to keep running. Go on Rover sites and lay low and read the threads. They love their Rovers like Cruiser guys do. But after reading for a month or so you will get the real reason not to buy a Rover. They are one big headache to keep running. I bought a 96 Cruiser about two months ago, and I just love it.... Do a lot of research before you decide. I did, then it took me 15 months or so to find the one I wanted.


SS

 

[MTNRAT]

I have owned rovers, not landrovers mind you, (TC 2000), but I worked on them more than I drove them. Pretty much the only time I work on the cruiser is maintenence, modifications, or if I haven't touched the truck in a while and I "think" I "need" to check something. Thats in over 40,000 miles of driving and 4 different spring heights. Now have over 100,000 miles and I can say it is now broken in.
Cheers,
Sean