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- #21
Long Travel Front Control Arms
- Thread starter Smaddox
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Started trying to get parts for this again and ran into a few pot-holes. I've been advised it's not possible (won't sell only the LCA's) to do the l/t LCA's w/o replacing coilovers to custom buildouts, mandatory replacement of the axles, after-market UCA's, and the other misc stuff they sell with the kits.
I swore I've seen builds where they used L/T LCA's, with after-market coilovers for the FJC (like the Icon l/t I'm running), UCA's upgrade is a must, and kept OEM axles (even if you'r better off with longer ones). Anyone?
Totally get the why on upgrading all of it. But doing it all at once is a bit too much $$$ to drop at one time.
I swore I've seen builds where they used L/T LCA's, with after-market coilovers for the FJC (like the Icon l/t I'm running), UCA's upgrade is a must, and kept OEM axles (even if you'r better off with longer ones). Anyone?
Totally get the why on upgrading all of it. But doing it all at once is a bit too much $$$ to drop at one time.
Good videos, good info. Thanks for sharing.
A few years back AllPro (now TrailGear) sold thier garbage LT kit with an option to bolt a large spacer to the top of your existing coilover but is obviously a terrible solution and was discontinued.
Your "extended travel Icons" arent long travel by anymeans and wont work with any LT kit whether its a +2" or +3.5" width kits. There is also ZERO possibility of running OEM length Tacoma/4R/FJC CVs with any long travel setup, they simply arent long enough. You buy the 2" longer midshaft and have that built into the two OEM ends. Its a necessity for 4wd. It's all a designed and developed kit to work together that you really shouldn't be trying to piecemeal together.
As someone who ran a full Total Chaos +2 Race kit for a couple years I can say 100% it wasnt worth it for the TX/NM/CO/UT trails i ran. Its cool and all for "the gram" but a can of worms that is never ending in reality.
Please don't take this as an assumption or attack but if you can't "afford" long travel now to purchase all at once it will truly nickel and dime you to death over time. I dont know you or your finances but can say that a quality standard or extended travel setup is 90% as capable for 1/3 the $$$.
Curious what can of worms were you continually going through? I am thinking of upgrading suspension and thinking of going straight to LT.
///Curious what can of worms were you continually going through? I am thinking of upgrading suspension and thinking of going straight to LT.///
Got to also ask the question, how far down that road of LT front suspension before exploring SAS? Just wondering. I have seen a few SAS FJ's here and think they are probably going to be offf road only....but???? Anyone?
SAS done right is still a bit iffy at freeway speeds, fine offroad but for me that off road experience is 2 or 3 weekend days each month compared to 200miles a week on the blacktop. Just thinking out loud.
Got to also ask the question, how far down that road of LT front suspension before exploring SAS? Just wondering. I have seen a few SAS FJ's here and think they are probably going to be offf road only....but???? Anyone?
SAS done right is still a bit iffy at freeway speeds, fine offroad but for me that off road experience is 2 or 3 weekend days each month compared to 200miles a week on the blacktop. Just thinking out loud.
One of the issues is the way tierods are handled with long travel setups. So imagine your wheels are now 2-3" further away from the steering rack tierods. The solution most employ is a threaded connector between the outer and inner rods. That much more length in a skinny tierod is a PITA for alignment and a weaker link when pushing the limits offroad. If someone could figure out a stronger tierod system, it would save a lot of the headaches of long travel, but them you'd probably blow through more steering racks.
And you now have "custom" CV axle assemblies that require much more time to replace when you break them - unless you have the bank and space to carry around full size spares.
And you now have "custom" CV axle assemblies that require much more time to replace when you break them - unless you have the bank and space to carry around full size spares.
Marlin Crawler is working on the MarRack . hopefully it becomes available soon
Yeah, I've been saying for a while, it would be cool if someone could make a Tundra steering rack fit the FJC. I'm eager to see what their final product looks like and how much it will cost.
Few things we need to get into here. And this is what i experienced, if you're made of money and have people work on and maintain your rig you probably wouldnt feel the same about the same things. Save your breath with the "WeLl mInE dOeSn'T mAkE NoIsE", thank the Good Lord and I hope your luck continues.
1. Spare CVs are no longer free from a buddy or 80 bucks at NAPA. $$$ just to have functional 4wd.
2. Uniballs click, squeek, creak, and moan. Incessently. My usage was in the desert and Rocky Mountains, far from rough (salty and wet NE type weather) conditions but even premium (FK) ends and uniballs never last more than 15-20k. That was one year for me.
3. Polyurethane squeeks and erodes no matter what grease and lube is used, dirt and sand are introduced the first trip out and it starts its decline, the poly in my lowers were junk and had to be replaced after 20k of usage.
4. Limit Straps, they stretch. Just something else to adjust and is required to be dialed in with LT unless you want to bind and explode CVs.
5. Cam Tab Gussets, from Total Chaos they say this is a 6-8hour job by someone experienced. Grinding and welding, my profession but i hate doing this job.
6. Alignments, good luck getting an alignment from someone when they see you've completely changed your suspension out. MOST of those clowns can barely do a spacer lifted FJC, watch their head spin when they see your LT as they turn you away. Good luck keeping that alignment with all the extra force/leverage even with Cam Gussets
7. Get ready to throw $2k at the rear to try and get it up to the same level as the front. Running a LT front(Howitzer) with a 2.0 rear(Red Rider) gets old quick.
8. Wheel Spacers. Love em or Hate em, you're going to want a set for the rear axle to make up for the track with disparity after going LT on the front.
9. Like BMT said, the steering on the Tacoma/4Runner/FJC isn't known for its stoutness. Again, more leverage equals more rack carnage.
10. A properly done ($$$$$) SAS is anything but iffy on or offroad. It's different but not much different than running around without swaybars and in emergency situations.
I basically like balljoints and rubber bushings for their long life, maintenance interval and ease, their NVH (noise,vibration,harchness) characteristics, and cheaper cost. Again, my thoughts and feelings. I installed another Total Chaos +2 Race kit yesterday for my buddy and the install went smooth and he's happy. TC has improved their instructions since i did mine back in 2015.
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///My local Toyota Truck/Cruiser garage will tell anyone that is considering SAS that it costs $25K PLUS parts, no if-ands-buts.///
Good grief thats high. We have several non-dealers here doing those SAS swaps for a lot less. Not something I am interested in for my truck.
Good grief thats high. We have several non-dealers here doing those SAS swaps for a lot less. Not something I am interested in for my truck.
I agree with many of the sentiments here. Just replying with my experience swapping to 3.5 LT.
1. Spare CVs are no longer free from a buddy or 80 bucks at NAPA. $$$ just to have functional 4wd. This is probably the more expensive parts if considered for machined parts since it's recommended to have a spare. If you're handy at all, build spares from your stock with extended shafts.
2. Uniballs click, squeek, creak, and moan. Incessently. My usage was in the desert and Rocky Mountains, far from rough (salty and wet NE type weather) conditions but even premium (FK) ends and uniballs never last more than 15-20k. That was one year for me. Wash your rig often and spray ends with triflow dry lube. Though these days, getting more useful miles out of the rod end bearings seem to be increasing with better maintenance and higher quality ends used in the kits.
3. Polyurethane squeeks and erodes no matter what grease and lube is used, dirt and sand are introduced the first trip out and it starts its decline, the poly in my lowers were junk and had to be replaced after 20k of usage. Same as above but definitely dirt and sand chews up bushings.
4. Limit Straps, they stretch. Just something else to adjust and is required to be dialed in with LT unless you want to bind and explode CVs. The limit straps included in the kit is somewhat junk. Double ply straps are weak (all of the ones I've seen are cheap looking). Trail gear straps 6-ply are a great improvement.
6. Alignments, good luck getting an alignment from someone when they see you've completely changed your suspension out. MOST of those clowns can barely do a spacer lifted FJC, watch their head spin when they see your LT as they turn you away. Good luck keeping that alignment with all the extra force/leverage even with Cam Gussets
Locate a good shop. I have a local Firestone that takes care of me, provided I catch them on a slower day. Doesn't matter what shop but when you request custom alignment specs, that could take longer. I got my money's worth after the 3rd with the lifetime package.
7. Get ready to throw $2k at the rear to try and get it up to the same level as the front. Running a LT front(Howitzer) with a 2.0 rear(Red Rider) gets old quick.
You're never truly level unless you go aftermarket linked. If you're crawling it may do with "long travel" kits available but it won't cut it in the high speed stuff.
Of course, you have to pay to play. If you're not going to do up the rear LT properly, I would just stick to standard travel systems.
1. Spare CVs are no longer free from a buddy or 80 bucks at NAPA. $$$ just to have functional 4wd. This is probably the more expensive parts if considered for machined parts since it's recommended to have a spare. If you're handy at all, build spares from your stock with extended shafts.
2. Uniballs click, squeek, creak, and moan. Incessently. My usage was in the desert and Rocky Mountains, far from rough (salty and wet NE type weather) conditions but even premium (FK) ends and uniballs never last more than 15-20k. That was one year for me. Wash your rig often and spray ends with triflow dry lube. Though these days, getting more useful miles out of the rod end bearings seem to be increasing with better maintenance and higher quality ends used in the kits.
3. Polyurethane squeeks and erodes no matter what grease and lube is used, dirt and sand are introduced the first trip out and it starts its decline, the poly in my lowers were junk and had to be replaced after 20k of usage. Same as above but definitely dirt and sand chews up bushings.
4. Limit Straps, they stretch. Just something else to adjust and is required to be dialed in with LT unless you want to bind and explode CVs. The limit straps included in the kit is somewhat junk. Double ply straps are weak (all of the ones I've seen are cheap looking). Trail gear straps 6-ply are a great improvement.
6. Alignments, good luck getting an alignment from someone when they see you've completely changed your suspension out. MOST of those clowns can barely do a spacer lifted FJC, watch their head spin when they see your LT as they turn you away. Good luck keeping that alignment with all the extra force/leverage even with Cam Gussets
Locate a good shop. I have a local Firestone that takes care of me, provided I catch them on a slower day. Doesn't matter what shop but when you request custom alignment specs, that could take longer. I got my money's worth after the 3rd with the lifetime package.
7. Get ready to throw $2k at the rear to try and get it up to the same level as the front. Running a LT front(Howitzer) with a 2.0 rear(Red Rider) gets old quick.
You're never truly level unless you go aftermarket linked. If you're crawling it may do with "long travel" kits available but it won't cut it in the high speed stuff.
Of course, you have to pay to play. If you're not going to do up the rear LT properly, I would just stick to standard travel systems.
Race car parts race car noises. If you have or haven't purchased this set up yet, most retailers if you buy both front and rear set up will give some what of a discount, ie the whole set-up uca`s shocks and links for the rear.
I have T.C mid travel 2.5. Have used it for four years now. Was it worth it yes and no, more maintenance uni-ball replacements more on the lower front.
Weekly oiling especially during the winter months road salt and all that goes with it.
Far cheaper than SA set and still comfortable to drive which I use this truck as D.D. even though I have removed both front and rear sway bars. Haven`t gotten around to going with an aftermarket rear sway bar. That's correct it isn`t a slalom racer.
Cost haven't priced a mid travel set up in a while but guessing about 5K+/- more + I would think.
SA for a decent front and rear axle set up links 30K and that's if you do most of the work yourself, O yea don`t forget that t-case Atlas 2300/4500 depending on which one you go with.
$$$$$
I have T.C mid travel 2.5. Have used it for four years now. Was it worth it yes and no, more maintenance uni-ball replacements more on the lower front.
Weekly oiling especially during the winter months road salt and all that goes with it.
Far cheaper than SA set and still comfortable to drive which I use this truck as D.D. even though I have removed both front and rear sway bars. Haven`t gotten around to going with an aftermarket rear sway bar. That's correct it isn`t a slalom racer.
Cost haven't priced a mid travel set up in a while but guessing about 5K+/- more + I would think.
SA for a decent front and rear axle set up links 30K and that's if you do most of the work yourself, O yea don`t forget that t-case Atlas 2300/4500 depending on which one you go with.
$$$$$