Lights No-Worky

[cahilc]

Ok, Cahil- I remembered I have the FSM downloaded... I'll look through that and see if I can find those relay's!

How do I test the 'circuits' you had broken down in post #12 when I find the relays?

Basically, after switching the relays and testing the lights and switching the headlights and testing the lights ... you have done a "shade-tree mechanic" test of those 4 circuits.

The next step would be to double check the FSM electrical diag to see if we have missed anything switching in the curcuit like an additional relay, something not solid wire. Most probably not but worth a peek.

If you have gotten this far it's either the headlight column switch(my choice) or something *really* weird.

But at this point if nothing has changed, the factory wires are intact & not hacked, I would take a hard look at dropping $75 clams @ Cruiser Parts for a colum head light switch.

Or ...

Break out an ohm meter and test the headlight column switch for a bad ground. Not simple but do-able.

After that if the headlight switch passes ... it gets interesting.

Need to break the circuit down component by component wire by wire and ohm test and trace each individual wire of the circuit. Again not simple but doable.

Whew ...



Cahil

 

[60wag]

The US spec 60s have only one relay handling all headlight duties - both sides, hi/lo. The hi/lo switching is done by connecting grounds in the dimmer switch, (that's why you can overload it with high wattage bulbs.) I can't quite explain your problem but the "both lamps on dim" sort of makes sense in that the current from one side can be fed back thru the hi beam elements to the other side - essentially three bulbs in series, that's why its dim. What I don't get is that it should do it on both sides with both fuses not just one. I would pull both headlamps and check all 4 elements and the pull, check, and swap both fuses. You might also check the fuseholder for corrosion.

 

[Doc]

Did a few checks.

Fuse holder is not corroded

Put a BRAND NEW light bulb in the drivers side, it didn't change the situation at all.

The two elements in the drivers side bulb are intact. As are the two in the passenger side.

Both old fuses were swapped to new fuses. No change.

I did find the relay in the FSM, looks to be under the drivers side dash, only one relay, as noted above. Did not physically locate the relay, as it is dark and very cold outside. Will attempt a relay check tomorrow.

Will I have to go buy a new relay from Autozone to check the functionality, or is there one that is 'swapable'?

ARGH! Did I mention the 80 series the wifey drives is also having headlight 'issues'? Man, when it rains, it POURS!

 

[cahilc]

Will I have to go buy a new relay from Autozone to check the functionality, or is there one that is 'swapable'?

Doc,

There should be one that is swappable. Find the relay for the hazard lights. Would be best bet. A/C circuit next best bet.

Weird, two fuse and one relay ? I really need to get those FSM's don't I.


Dimmer switch, side marker lights, & running lights are controlled by the headlight switch but powered up before headlights. I'd still bet on *funky* ground in headlight switch. Swap the relay and see what happens. Just for giggles run the dimmer switch up-down-up-down see if it affects headlights too, shouldn't but worth a try.

Cahil

 

[Doc]

Cahil, you can download an electronic copy of the FSM , but you'll still need a EWD. The FSM doesn't show wires, just locations of switches and that relay. It also shows how to dissasemble the light switch, but not how to test it.

I forget where I downloaded my copy, but I can send it from my work computer if you need it. It's HUGE though. Might not clear a normal type of e-mail filter because of the size. I'd burn you a copy but the work computer doesn't have CD-R.

 

[cahilc]

Cahil, you can download an electronic copy of the FSM , but you'll still need a EWD. The FSM doesn't show wires, just locations of switches and that relay. It also shows how to dissasemble the light switch, but not how to test it.

I forget where I downloaded my copy, but I can send it from my work computer if you need it. It's HUGE though. Might not clear a normal type of e-mail filter because of the size. I'd burn you a copy but the work computer doesn't have CD-R.

I'm gonna order one here in a jiffy. I'm still on dial-up and AOL has a 2mb e-mail attachment limit ... but I really do appreciate the offer ...

I'm figuring if your relay checks out, dimmer switch grounds are ok (courtesy of 60wag), there's something wacky going on inside of your headlight switch.

Check the circuit diag ? There's nothing left but raw wire ???

Cahil

 

[Doc]

Don't have a circuit diagram to check. Unless I also downloaded the EWD on the work computer. I'll have to check that tomorrow. I did check the visable portions of the headlight wires for splices before the loom, and did not see any. I'm hoping it's as simple as a bad relay. It's wierd that it was working 100% correct one day and then crapped out the next.

But, I do have those Hella FF1000's on the front of that big bumper if I need them- but now that it gets dark at 4pm it'd be a good thing to have TWO functional headlights.

 

[cahilc]

Doc, no worries, we'll figure it out.

2 fuse, 2 relay is norm for most builds. Weird there's only one relay.

I know it sounds dumb but still swap the headlights and see if the problem migrates with the headlight swap. Figure out a swap for the relay ... test that ... and then on to the headlight switch.

Keep me posted,
Cahil

 

[Mike S]

But, I do have those Hella FF1000's on the front of that big bumper if I need them- but now that it gets dark at 4pm it'd be a good thing to have TWO functional headlights.

How are they wired? do you have a switched relay that only operates when the headlights are powered up (power to the relay from the headlight lead)?

 

[cahilc]

Does anybody know if there is a fuseable link in the headlight circuit ?

Cheers,
Cahil

 

[swank60]

There's a fusable link to everything but the starter...

Here's what I'm thinking (and I'm willing to second a few of the suggestions above)

I think you've go a short somewhere. Fusable link is a possibility. The way stuff is crossing over like that makes me think an electrical component has gone awry. The switch could be be, or, as 60wag suggested, if there's too much power running through that relay, it could have gotten the better of it and it's causing it to act funny. (now that I know what a relay does, exactly ) The relay for the headlights, methinks, is up in the driver's side foot well. There's a bank of round, aluminum looking doo-dads and it's one of those. I think there's three in the bank - one is headlights, one is for the wipers, and one is for...um...the ion transponder...I don't remember, exactly. Seems like you can actually hear it click when you flip on your lights.

Is your alt running right? What about the battery? I had a weird light come on - it was the e brake warning light - would fade in and out at startup and run so dimly while I was driving you couldn't tell it was on (unless you looked really closely at it at night) That's what happenes in my truck when the alternator goes out. Also, and I don't remeber what fuse it is, but when the alt is gone, I get weird shorts like that. I put a test light on a fuse and was getting a positive charge running through both connections (but it's an in-out type thing, so that's not right) and I get electricity running back through one of the fusable links as well.

I chased electrical grimlins for months and months when I first got the truck and again recently, and that's all it was - the alt had gone bad. Made all sorts of trouble that didn't have anything to do with the charging system.

Could be a bad ground, as well. Look for crap around the connections from your neg bat lead. That's a shot in the dark...but you know.

I think I'm going to stick with the alt remark, then the relay. Third would be the switch.

 

[NEK_VT_FJ60]

My vote leans towards the switch. Its not too difficult to pull apart and check. Or it could be, funky wiring done by the PO. One of the previous owners of my truck, a 16 year old no doubt, installed tons of crap like an alarm system, fog lights, amps, speakers, trailer harness. None if it was done right so when I took it all out a lot of my electrical problems dissapeared.

I too have been chasing down electrical problems for the last couple of weeks. At the moment it looks like a bomb went off in the cruiser. Every piece of dash, floor and carpet is taken out and wires are EVERYWHERE. But i think i've tracked my last short down to the dirver's rear talilight assembly.

Look for inconsitencies in your wiring, loose electrical tape, but splices and twist connectors are sure signs of tampering... bare wires too.

 

[Doc]

How are they wired? do you have a switched relay that only operates when the headlights are powered up (power to the relay from the headlight lead)?

I have completely autonomous wiring to the Hella's they operate idependantly of the headlights, brights or not. Which, in this case is a good thing.

 

[60wag]

Here's the wiring from the FSM. I hope the picture is clear enough to read. There just isn't much wiring there. I doubt the fusible links are involved as the hi beam appears to be ok. I'm betting on a poor/corroded connection at the headlight plug.

 

[cahilc]

Doc, After checking the schematic I'm leaning toward 60wag's suggestion. Most probably a corroded contact. Corroded contacts may act like weird resistors too. Give'm enought juice and they go away. Low juice and weird things happen.

For future reference, that circuit is *not* designed for much higher than normal juice either ...

Cheers,
Cahil

 

[Doc]

When you guys are talking about contacts, are you talking about the plug connectors on the back of the lights? Or what?

 

[cahilc]

When you guys are talking about contacts, are you talking about the plug connectors on the back of the lights? Or what?

Yup, and also check the wire for loose play as it goes into the connector. Dielectric(bulb)grease ... squeeze a little bit into the female connector side and re-assemble.

Cheers,
Cahil

P.S. My gut tells me the Hella's you installed might need a bit more juice to activate. Where the stock lights would have worked fine. Just a guess. Bad contact would then give weird results with da' Hella's.

 

[Doc]

Huh? Ok, now I'm confused.

Probobly because I'm confusing everyone.

I replaced the stock headlights with Hella units. I ALSO have Hella ff1000's on the bumper (fog lights) The Hella's on the bumper function perfectly and are not wired in to the stock wiring at all. The 7" round hella replacement lights in the grille are the ones not working, and they are of stock wattage, 55/60.

 

[cahilc]

...
The 7" round hella replacement lights in the grille are the ones not working, and they are of stock wattage, 55/60.

Those, pull'em, dielectric grease the contacts, check for loose wires into the connectors, swap sides(i.e. left to right, right to left) ...

Tell us what happens ...

Cheers,
Cahil

P.S. Next step is to check which filaments are firing by angle ... with that info I can work the schematic and tell you *exactly* where the problem is ...

 

[Doc]

Do I need to somehow clean the electrical contacts with sandpaper first?

Firing by angle? WTF?