Lift front only and keep air ride? (10' Premium)

[WTITW]

Does anybody know of anyone who has lifted the front of a GX and kept the rear air ride? I searched high and low here and on club lex and found nothing other than swapping out the bags for springs. Ideally I'd just put an adjustable strut in the front to level it out and call it a day since I only want about 1.5". I talked to a mechanic who said the electronic ride control will cause issues but couldn't I just swap the rear shocks as well to disable the whole system? Not really interested in spacers as I actually go off-road occasionally : )

 

[WTITW]

Does anybody know of anyone who has lifted the front of a GX and kept the rear air ride? I searched high and low here and on club lex and found nothing other than swapping out the bags for springs. Ideally I'd just put an adjustable strut in the front to level it out and call it a day since I only want about 1.5". I talked to a mechanic who said the electronic ride control will cause issues but couldn't I just swap the rear shocks as well to disable the whole system? Not really interested in spacers as I actually go off-road occasionally : )

Just spoke with John at Metal Tech. Wow. Lots of knowledge there. He says it's doable but I might not be able to get the dash light for the ride control to go away unless I use the black tape method... Apparently the 470's had a separate fuses for ride control but the 460's dropped it into another shared circuit. Anyway, I'll play with it and report back.

 

[Acrad]

Dash light issues on AVS/RAHC 460s is related to proper adjustment of rear height sensors

How do you disable #dash #lights after removing air suspension/ #RAHC? - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

GX - 2nd Gen (2010-2023) - How do you disable #dash #lights after removing air suspension/ #RAHC? - Posting for a friend who doesn't have good internet skills... He just lifted his 2011 GX 460 Premium with Old Man Emu springs and shocks and removed the rear air suspension with the help of the...

www.clublexus.com

AVS shock removal doesn't seem to trigger any warning messages.

 

[Acrad]

460 instructions are still wrong

https://www.metaltech4x4.com/content/GX470-GX460-4Runner%20Rear%20Coil%20Conversion%20Kit.pdf

"Disconnecting the Ride Control Computer, Fuses and Relay if you’re adding a lift to your GX470GX460/4Runner. 3.1 Inside the engine bay you will locate the fuse/relay box on the driver side. The inside of the panel will have a chart showing the location of all the fuses and relays. Locate the “Air Sus 50A” fuse and the “Air Sus Fuse #2” and remove them from the fuse panel. Some vehicles may also require the removal of the TEMS 20A fuse form the fuse panel in the driver compartment just under the mirror and defrost switches."

 

[WTITW]

I'm perplexed why MT hasn't updated their 460 instructions as they are still wrong... I even emailed them about this late last year and they said they were going to correct.

https://www.metaltech4x4.com/content/GX470-GX460-4Runner%20Rear%20Coil%20Conversion%20Kit.pdf

"Disconnecting the Ride Control Computer, Fuses and Relay if you’re adding a lift to your GX470GX460/4Runner. 3.1 Inside the engine bay you will locate the fuse/relay box on the driver side. The inside of the panel will have a chart showing the location of all the fuses and relays. Locate the “Air Sus 50A” fuse and the “Air Sus Fuse #2” and remove them from the fuse panel. Some vehicles may also require the removal of the TEMS 20A fuse form the fuse panel in the driver compartment just under the mirror and defrost switches."

You should change you handle to GXOPEDIA.

He was a wealth of knowledge relative to me but that's not a high bar currently : ) He did say it would be easy on the 470 because you just pull the fuse but we weren't talking about the compressor, we were discussing keeping the airbag system and removing the AVS shocks in the front without warning lights. He said that was connected to a fuse labeled TEMS on the internal block on the 470. Not sure if that's thats the same fuse label referenced for removing the air suspension.

I'd like to put an adjustable coil over in the front and keep the rear airbags but I thought the variable suspension might go crazy if you remove the front but not the back. My next thought was "let's just put new shocks in back and keep the bags. That's what led to the light discussion. I won't be able to get into my garage with much higher than the stock bags unless I break out the circular saw, remove my rack or run a smaller tire. If I keep the air I can still get that extra couple inches for the trail on the back and have a more capable / level front end and still fit into my garage...

Thoughts? Stupid idea? Any deep forum knowledge on removing the AVS shocks without a lift? I'm headed up the hill in the am but Sunday I might just unplug the shock connectors on one or more corners and see what happens. MT said the system only sends a signal when you change the setting and the valving is switched internally on the shock.

 

[Acrad]

I could be wrong but I believe I have already heard someone do the partial disconnect and no errors occurred.

Like you were thinking.. a single disconnect should prove whether this is the case or not.

 

[Acrad]

I believe cluster warning message is only for RAHC and not AVS. I will look into this further but I don't think AVS issues generate any warnings and would require a Techstream or equivalent code read to find the issues or see that shocks were disconnected.

 

[Acrad]

 

[r2m]

I thought that it wasn't possible to leave the rear in a lifted position?
At least mine was never able to do that.

 

[WTITW]

IIRC... an ad hoc modification of the rear height sensors has been done by some to overcome the 18 MPH correction to normal. Seems to be different on every vehicle so one would have to just adjust until desired result occurred.

Still trying to find time to work through this but it looks like disconnecting the AVS shocks results in no warnings lights on my 2010. I disconnected one rear shock connector yesterday in the garge and nothing showed up on the dash. It might be possible to keep the rear height control and AVS on just the rear while changing out the front to an adjustable coil over. That would allow for a front lift without touching the back.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW - I found the valving to be tricky with aftermarket shocks matched with the air springs. Most shocks are valved for linear spring rates. I didn't really like the ride with the highly progressive air springs matched with aftermarket Fox shocks. These were run in my 5th gen 4Runner with GX460 air springs and about a 1.5" lift riser on the spring seat on the axle - with the goal of putting the air spring back to it's roughly original position at lift.

I think what you'd want to match with the springs is digressive shock valving rather than Fox's progressive valving. So maybe Icon or Bilstein shocks might be a better option.

good luck

 

[A4B7]

I am very curious on how this build goes jakemccurdy. I just bought a 2010 460 premium and considering dobinson 2.5” lift in the front and 1.5” spacers with stock air ride but not sure if it’s possible. Please keep us posted on how it goes and good luck!

 

[Mountaintrails]

I swapped to OME lift on all 4 and never looked back. The ride is so much better. I would hate to see someone go through all the trouble to try to keep a component that will need replaced later anyway. I tow and haul with my rig.

 

[WTITW]

I've actually been thinking about the impending lift a lot lately since I keep doing stupid shirt like this:



Yeah, I suck at off roading : ) although I got a bit better by the end of the day -




I actually have been homing in on the Dobinsons IMS shocks as a nice go between from the cheap but only partially adjustable Bilsteins and the really expensive options like ICON. I may pull the trigger this month since they're having a 15% off sale. Still thinking through it though.

I love the functionality but agree with Mountain trails that the ride is not as good as springs. To me it feels a bit under inflated at normal and over inflated at high. Im wondering if tricking them to set between the two settings for normal might be better anyway. It only costs a few washers and an hour to try it so it’s not a huge commit.

FYI - my truck has 146k on original airbags. Toyota just inspected them and said no dry rotting, no leaks. I know that this is a controversial topic but I dont think Toyota and every semi truck on the world would use the bags if they were unreliable. Spings with helper bags would be the best of both worlds but I have not seen a set that you can tie into the self adjusting factory system, all Ive seen just load level manually from a Schrader valve.

Several GX related videos on my YT channel and will definitely do at least one or two in depth videos on the lift whenever I get there. Wrapping up the cheap onboard air system this weekend. Wasting Time In The Woods

 

[WTITW]

FWIW - I found the valving to be tricky with aftermarket shocks matched with the air springs. Most shocks are valved for linear spring rates. I didn't really like the ride with the highly progressive air springs matched with aftermarket Fox shocks. These were run in my 5th gen 4Runner with GX460 air springs and about a 1.5" lift riser on the spring seat on the axle - with the goal of putting the air spring back to it's roughly original position at lift.

I think what you'd want to match with the springs is digressive shock valving rather than Fox's progressive valving. So maybe Icon or Bilstein shocks might be a better option.

good luck

Bilstein 5100’s are cheap for the rear and I believe are digressive. TBH, I think Id just keep the factory shocks until I changed the bags to springs.

 

[mattds]

I have a 2016 and have what you are inquiring about. i have a 2" lift in the front and just adjusted the sensor in the back...i had to adjust mine about .75" to get it level (maybe .5"). It still has very good range of motion...the "hi" setting is about 2" higher and the low is still on the bump stops.

 

[WTITW]

I have a 2016 and have what you are inquiring about. i have a 2" lift in the front and just adjusted the sensor in the back...i had to adjust mine about .75" to get it level (maybe .5"). It still has very good range of motion...the "hi" setting is about 2" higher and the low is still on the bump stops.

Do you mind sharing your set up? Which shocks did you go with? Did you leave the stock shocks in the back or swap those out too? I assume you got the lift from lifted coil?

 

[A4B7]

Yes do tell Matt

 

[mattds]

i ony used a spacer (only bought the truck in june) and stock suspension -i'm about to purchse some radflow 2.5 IFP coilovers/shocks (for xmas lol). But how the lift is done is different than if it can work - and i certainly can.

One valid point is that most aftermarket shocks are tuned to work with linear springs...and the air springs are progressive...which off road on larger bumps (say on a trail between obstacles) it can get bouncy...but if you get shocks custom valved they can compensate for that.

Finally - i would not go with digressive valved shocks for off road...Fox, King, Radflo, Elka...all have linear valving and then they can be tuned to give a progressive damping curve.

I settled on Radflo because they can custom tune/valve IFP shocks...places like Accutune will only tune bypass shocks which are another significant step up in price. Dobinson's are also intriuging because they offer so much adjustment (so you can essentially tune them yourself) and they are slightly better value than fox and king. (but the dobinson's are i think a 2.25" shock wheras the others offer 2.5".

 

[Jetboy]

Bilstein 5100’s are cheap for the rear and I believe are digressive. TBH, I think Id just keep the factory shocks until I changed the bags to springs.

I don't really know how best to describe the ride with the highly progressive shocks and air springs - it was soft. But unsettling in some hard to describe way. You always felt uncomfortable even though it wasn't the least bit harsh or jarring. There's some issues with the natural cycle of the suspension and having to match that to around 1hz. Supposedly if the natural cycle frequency is to far off from a human's natural walking frequency - you'll get uncomfortable riding in it. I guess that's why some cars tend to create motion sickness, and the same for wave frequency on the ocean making you sea sick. Something about the combo for me created that sort of effect. I think -??? - you'd want more shock dampening with soft air springs at low speed than you would with coil springs and maybe less at high speed - at least on compression. On rebound - maybe you want less low speed rebound and more high speed rebound dampening. In a perfect world I'd buy a set of external bypass rear shocks and play with tuning until you get it right.