Land Cruiser 4x4 system better than the rest? (1 Viewer)

[upcruiser]

Before I bought my 80 I looked at and checked out some other rigs. First off, prior to the 80 I had a 60 that brought me nothing but good luck, superb reliablity and got me anywhere I wanted to go. So I had a predisposition to get another cruiser. I test drove a a swb '92 Range Rover. I've always admired Rovers and wanted to consider one despite personal accounts from friends who owned them and had nighmarish stories about them. The price of a used RR vs TLC of the same vintage was less then half holding all things equal. So, the price of a used Rover was inviting. I test drove it and was impressed really. It had good torquey power, ver comfortable interior with great visibility, the high seating felt awkward but worked well. I took it off the road and checked the flex on it, the RR's have great flex stock and I would venture to say that the front axle has a bit more flex then an 80. The thing that prevented me from buying it though was the reliability concerns, electronic failures and general componentry failure as well was very high. When I test drove it, the dealership informed me that they had been waiting on a couple of small parts that were on back order from England. After reading more and more reviews from owners with comments such as "if it isn't leaking fluid, its probably out", and then researching lifts and assecories to mod it, I decided that it wasn't in my best interest.

The other vehicle I checked out was a Mercedes Gelandewagen 2.8. It was an older '84 and a particularly rare model in the states. It was a great truck with locking differentials and the nice factory steel wheels. Very understated interior, prior to them going super luxo with them. Turn offs were the lack of power from the 2.8 petrol engine and the cost of admission, this one was 15k with 130,000 miles on the clock. The availablity for parts seemed a bit scary. The MB dealership was very friendly though, and from what I've read have some of the highest customer satisfaction ratings. I didn't get to sample the G wagon off road at all since it was winter and too much snow. It did ride nice though but with the standard tires didn't have a whole olot of clearance. Aftermarket is not very ripe with options for these either. So, I ixnayed this one too. In all honesty though, this was the one that I wanted the most.

So I settled with my 80 and have been perfectly happy. The major short comings have been the power with my 3FE on the highway, (really not that bad untill you are in the mountains) and fuel consumption. Honestly though, the 3FE is just fine for me. When I'm using my 80, I'm going out to enjoy being outdoors and take in some scenery, I'm in no hurry. With my OME and 33's I can go pretty much wherever I need for what I use the truck for and am happy. The lack of reliability problems is always nice when you are wheeling a long way out from civilization too.

 

[Rich]

I have a buddy with a Defender 90. It works offroad very well. Full time 4x4, locking center diff, but no stock front or rear lockers. Shorter wheel base, fits better than cruiser on tighter trails. His only seats two, and has a lot less cargo capacity compared to my cruiser. The ride is damn stiff and it is loud and noisey inside with a soft top. It is very comparable in [lack of] comfort to my previous '75 FJ40. With a V8 it has a lot more power than my FJ40 ever did. Cruising 70 -80 mph on the highway he keeps up with me. Compared to the "stories we hear" his has been reasonably reliable. He had a transfer case replaced under warranty to correct a leak, and had one headgasket replaced subsequent to a fan belt breaking and the resulting overheat. Other than that he has driven it 100K miles with no issues.

The D110s are very rare in the US. I have ridden in one on road in England. In terms of passenger and cargo capacity a D110 would suit me much better than a D90. They are so scarce in the US that the prices are way high and from a $ standpoint are hard to justify compared to a cruiser.

All in all I prefer the comfort of the 80 Landcruiser over the Defenders. The Defenders are targetted by the manufacturer for off road use and work well in that environment, and I do appreciate that.

 

[upcruiser]

I saw a really nice newer D110 at a rally race this past fall. It had Michigan plates, right hand drive, winch, nice roof basket, snorkel, and the diesel motor. Nice looking rig, but yeah, you don't see alot of them in the states.

A buddy of mine was replacing the starter for a Defender at his shop and said that is was a total bitch due to the location of the a frame member to the stater. He ended up having to bend a frame cross member to remove it. Wow, that doesn't sound cool.

 

[bad_religion_au]

without lockers, a GQ or GU patrol would be neck and neck with an 80, similar flex, similar torque and power band, stronger axles, alegedly better engines (no one kills many of either) stronger gearbox, no factory diff locks available in Aus, but i believe they are available in other markets...

as for the defender 110. i've got a comparison floating around here of a leaf sprung 75 series vs a defender 110, the 75 has longer overhangs, really stiff rear springs (and is a leaf sprung bugger) but the comparison gave the nod to the 75 series offroad, not just flex, but usable torque (1hz vs the tD in the 110), crap like that.

as for the IFS 100, talking stock, not looking at the aftermarket, a 100 is just behind an 80 or a patrol, and a good driver will exploit the stability of the ifs in some situations.

also, abs based traction control is useless offroad in alot of environments (really slippery mud, sand etc), so isn't comparable to a diff lock

 

[FirstToy]

You guys are nuts. No suv is better than a 80.
1. Awesome design
2. Awesome community
3. Built to last, doesn't break down
4. Mods are easy and available
5. SFA
6. Much cooler kicking a$$ on the trail with a LC. Land Rovers have this image so killing one on the trail would be a treat, getting owned wouldn't hurt the manhood as much- although I honestly think a 80 will go head-to-head with any LR
7. I think the fact a daily driver can go do Moab, come back and do mall duty says it all about "do it all" ability
8. A modded 80 is UNIQUE! I mean damn, it really stands out.

My next whip is definitley an 80. Patience is it's own reward and I already know all the mods I'm going to do!

 

[calamaridog]

Couple of things.

1) Any manufacture that puts lockers, gears, big tires, etc. on a vehicle is all right in my book. I may not buy one because I am sold on Toyota reliability, but when they sell and there is a waiting list (Rubicon) then it encourages other manufacturers to step up to the plate and provide off road packages with real options and not just stickers.

2) Rockcrawlers are built, not bought. A trailworthy rig, however, can be easily modified from a GOOD STOCK PLATFORM, such as the FJ80.

3) Toyota absolutely promotes off roading and the image of their trucks as off road vehicles. The new Tacoma commercials are heavily in favor of the 4x4 Tacomas. In addition, Toyota is sponsoring the new program hosted by Ironman Iron Stewart, "Tuff Trucking", which airs on Spike TV on Sat. This TV program features Toyota trucks every week as well as other vehicles. They have done several specials on the TTORA organization and shown modified Tacos running trails from Tahoe to Big Bear.

4) In addition to sponsoring "Tuff Trucking", Toyota sponsored the TTORA Takeover and paid for dinner. TRD was on hand with the new truck to show it off even before any car magazines had seen it. They gave away a supercharger and 7th injector kit at the raffle. I would say they are very dedicated to off roading and they continue to promote racing of all sorts.

 

[Rich]

It's the direction Toyota has taken the Landcruiser that I don't like. In particular, the lack of mechanical lockers on US 100s, and all of the running board, plastic stuff, and the marketing of the vehicle to folks who have 60K to spend on a rig they will only use on road. And it's not so much the price the bothers me, its where the extra cost is directed. I'd like a variant with no third row seats, more leg room for front seat, easily removed second row (I.E. latching seats like present third row), no running boards, no plastic bumpers, and have it sprung and geared for larger wheels, solid front axle, lockers, etc. I'd pay Toyota big bucks for a off road specialized Land Cruiser. I'd be extra thrilled if they would offer a longer wheel base version similar to the old troop carriers. I'd give up a bit of trail capability for more cargo room. It's clear that they are not marketing new Land Cruisers to folks like me. And I understand why, as the market is small.

 

[blupaddler]

Exactly...the market is small.

But, also the reason you mentioned with all of the plastic, and other stuff. The American public demands it. We don't need functional solid axle trucks like other countries. Of course, it wouldn't hurt if they actually offered a scaled down basic 4x4 model for the rest of us. And, it would sell to more than just 4wheelers. Ranchers and the such would jump on trucks built that tough.

 

[Gumby]

There is also something to be said for our representatives in Congress who feel the need to protect us legislating many models of Cruisers, Patrols etc. out of the US. It does not pay to send a stripped down version over here when it must be loaded up with US-only requirements.

 

[MoJ]

I used to wheel my old 91 80 (unlocked, with only 32" A/T's and no OME) with a bunch of Cherokee drivers at a local ORV park. No contest. During times when they would struggle to pick the perfect line and get up a hill my 91 would just casually climb right up, very uneventful. Being able to climb in a controlled manner was nice as the Cherokee guys would often have to get a faster start to try to make it up the hill which would often lead to them breaking stuff.

 

[TexomaFJ40]

Range Rover Defender 90...when it's too much for my stock Landcruiser. I imagine the 2003> Range Rovers can hold thier own also.

 

[willmaxr]

while i was shopping for my LX a/o landcruiser the only other vehicle i read about that was capable off road and built to last was the full size montero. suposedly the best exit/entry angles? i drove a couple and what turned me away was the dealership and their customer service. i am way glad i went toyota, but i am interested in your experienced opinion on that rig.

 

[Rookie2]

Bit of a thread jack, but what is the difference in affectiveness of a 4WD system that uses a limited slip differential, versus one that fully locks like the ones on a cruiser.

Thanks,
Rookie2

 

[MoJ]

Bit of a thread jack, but what is the difference in affectiveness of a 4WD system that uses a limited slip differential, versus one that fully locks like the ones on a cruiser.

Thanks,
Rookie2

"Fully locks" as in lockers or fully locks as in full-time 4WD?

 

[Tigerstripe40]

while i was shopping for my LX a/o landcruiser the only other vehicle i read about that was capable off road and built to last was the full size montero. suposedly the best exit/entry angles? i drove a couple and what turned me away was the dealership and their customer service. i am way glad i went toyota, but i am interested in your experienced opinion on that rig.

My 2 cents...

1 most capable out of the box truck is going to be a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.
-4.0 straight 6 4:1 t-case, lockers front and rear.

2 next most capable is the mercedes benz G-Klasse
-5.7 liter V8, 3:1 ish t-case lockers front and rear

3 Locked Defender 90

4 Locker 80 series.

5 Between an UNLOCKED 80 series, and an UNLOCKED Land Rover Defender 90 it's a wash.

 

[sandcruiser]

3) Toyota absolutely promotes off roading and the image of their trucks as off road vehicles.

Let's also not forget that Toyota USA is a differen thing than "toyota"

In non-US markets, Toyota is still going strong: I haven't driven a new 7x pickup yet, but they sell them in Costa Rica and they come with the following:
factory lockers ff/rr, 7.50 r 16 tires on 16" steel wheels, coil spring front, leaf rear. Grunty gearing (not sure of exactly how low, but lower than a USA 6x series)
Nice rig.

They've got troopies too. And 7x SWB vehicles....

It simply appears that Toyota USA doesn't see enough $ demand to bring these vehicles into the US. They don't bring in 3.0 turbo 4 runners either, despite the fact that it is a very capable vehicle...

But they do *make* them.

 

[Rookie2]

"Fully locks" as in lockers or fully locks as in full-time 4WD?

Clarification: Limited slip differential versus a positively engage locker like is available as a factory option for the front and rear diffs on the 80 series land cruisers.


Rookie2

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

No contest, Period. There is more to it than the "system" as you call it. It is a balance of size, suspension, powerplant, transmission, ease of modification, ad nausium. Comparing apples-to apples, I doubt that any "current" un-locked suv can one-up an un-locked 80 and I'm certain that any "current" SUV will not best a locked 80.


When it comes to "production" vehicles, it just don't get any better........

UNLOCKED vs UNLOCKED (like was asked)? A traction controlled 100 (2000+) will leave an 80 in the dust in the tough stuff. You must have some traction device to move the power around or you're stuck. Proved that MANY times to MANY 80 owners. Sorry!

The ONLY UNLOCKED rigs I've seen hang with the 100 in the tough stuff are late model Disco's and Range Rovers (models also with effective traction control, though they're nowhere near as well controlled, or "dialed in" as the 100's ActiveTrac.).

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Rich, you can't even start to compare a boobiecon to an 80. Those heeps spend so much time fixing their broken crap that there is no comparison.

A G-wag is the next in line to the 80.

Like the original question was asked......UNlocked vs UNlocked. The 80 G-Wag will be stopped in it's tracks compared when unlocked compared to a 100 or Rover.

Now, LOCKED VS LOCKED? 80 over a 100, sure. Though not by much. Locked to locked......I'd say the 100 is still the next choice to an 80 besting (though some mag's have disaggreed):

New Range Rover
G-Wagon
H2 (That's H-Poo)

Rubicon isn't an SUV, though it would better most rigs in the tough stuff. You do need to drive it directly from the Jeep dealer for a 4-inch lift and upgraded Dana-44 U-joints. Otherwise your belly is draggin'.

A pre-2005 Tacoma 4WD TRD with rear locker will also hang with anything. In stock form they are amazing!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The only SUV that would be hard to compete against LC80 AWD system is RangeRover.I mean own both vehicle and rangerover got same everything as LC80 -AWD hi & Lo.In Australia and some other countries RangeRover been tested in serious real off-road situation.

Off the lot, in stock condition, this is true. The New R Rover is very capable.

For anybody though who truly wants or intends to run trails, the New RR and Disco 3 have killed the owners possibilities. You can't just slap on a $1000 lift and some bigger tires on the Rovers like you can the 100 Cruiser and/or other current trucks. This is why the die-hard Rover owners are disgusted with Ford Rover. Heck, the Ford pinheads are swapping the excellent BMW engine for the POC Jag motor in the NRR in order to save thousands, though they're not dropping the price?