Keep the BIG BOY Starter (1 Viewer)

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bjowett

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The following covers 2008 - 2010 model years, it will likely cover later models too... but there are some part number changes for later model years that I have yet to explore.

I recently received Toyota's superseded tiny starter. Upon pulling it from the box and comparing it to larger and heavier original, well, I knew then and there we all need to know what makes it tick. Could it really be an improved part in a smaller package? A quick breakdown and comparison shows it to be a permanent magnet motor... There are places where such motors may be beneficial (feel free to debate), but my 6000 lb Cruiser is probably not in that category. The series wound original is my choice, and a NEW original Denso part is the name of the game. We can reman this, or substitute that, but when the R&R job is as knee deep in fiddle f*#k as this one is, I'm going all in.

Fortunately, Lexus has decided to continue on supplying the original series wound style starter for their V8 cars (LS 460, IS-F, LC 500), and we can utilize it to build a brand new LC starter. Many of the individual 2.0 KW starter parts cross over to the superior old style Land Cruiser unit. For about $250, the complete brand new made in Japan starter is available right through Lexus USA. Part number is 28100-38021. Both the rear cover and front housing from the original LC starter are required to make this build work. This is due to the 4.6 and 5.0 engines having slightly different bellhousing and heat shield mounts.... and since both ends contain wear parts, new parts might not be a bad idea. Both can be purchased for roughly $70, the part numbers are 28110-38010 and 28130-38010. The solenoid has a slight difference in mounting angle, and while it appears to plug in and bolt up without issue, I'm not planning to keep it.

That leads us to the remaining item here, and that is to find a HD solenoid. While the solenoids of these later starters are superseded, and hopefully more durable, it is the source of the failure, and it needs to be taken care of. My search has commenced.

Right now we are looking at putting out roughly $320, the solenoid will add to that... I'll update when I secure a better unit. Pics asap.
 
Great tech, as usual.

Call me size-ist but when people were posting that the new starter was smaller as though it was an advantage I was immediately skeptical. As it is I personally believe starter R&R without manifold removal is the band-aid way to go about this, so a smaller starter wouldn’t benefit me at all.

So I opted to just replace the solenoid as PM since it is usually the failure point anyway. I’m curious if your search comes up with something even better.
 
So my starter is acting up.
Press the start button: Click...no start.
Off/On again: Click...no start.
Repeat, repeat and finally it will turn over after the seventh try.

Was looking to R&R the part with only that parts I need. Winding should be fine is my thinking.

Thanks for shedding light on the subject.
 
My starter went out w/ 108k miles. All of the internals actually look pretty good... but I tend to over do things when in this deep.

In addition to replacing the solenoid, there is a plastic lever that the solenoid uses to actuate the starter gear... Replace this, too. Part number is 28114-38020 and it retails for a whopping $1.84.
 
Great to know. Thank you.
 
To be fair, not sure I've heard of the actual starter motor failing? With either the big boy motor or new small format motor?

I could be wrong, but I believe the starter failures have always been with the piggybacked solenoid relay (bottom). Which can be bought separately, keeping the big boy starter motor.

1627748715390.png


More solenoid tear down pics here
 
Yes, you could be wrong about that TeCKis300 but I’d put my money on your observation. Your suggestions/posts/responses are much appreciated by this community. 👍👍
 
Yes, the solenoid is the main failure point. But to reiterate, when this deep in, I prefer to do it all, rather than leave it, only to find the next failure point within several years.
 
So here’s to getting the starter out. (203K miles on the vehicle as of today.)
All the bolts on the manifold are easy to get to and didn't mare up.
The one bad thing that I encountered was when dropping the right cat pipe, I had to drop the trans brace for clearance issues.

Planning on rebuilding the old starter.

Ordered parts:
96721-19010 dipstick o-ring (didn't end up needing this.)
17173-38020 RH manifold gasket
17377-38010 air-tube gasket
94151-80600 nuts (2)
94151-80841 nuts (8)
90467-10210 clip (4)
90467-12069 (5)

I did FOBAR the stubs and nuts on the exh. manifold.
90126-10033 (3) manifold stud.
90179-10070 (3) manifold nut.

A8BB5D0A-9029-45CC-AF01-836F4A0F3D55.jpeg


3C134E29-FFE8-4E2E-A655-BD7A4B3D7C99.jpeg




5E89A42C-21FA-4EAA-9BC8-8A964244BEE3.jpeg




No signs of anything that @bjowett encountered on the failure. I think my failure was the brushes wore out.

89AE0F85-8A56-43DE-B3E2-FB57C2C23E3A.jpeg
 
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side by side comparison.

Starter cost from Frontier Toyota in CA was $180, or $203 with shipping.

71074C54-09EE-4B99-A09D-3A2D0C136B2C.jpeg
 
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So here’s to getting the starter out. (203K miles on the vehicle as of today.)
All the bolts on the manifold are easy to get to and didn't mare up.
The one bad thing that I encountered was when dropping the right cat pipe, I had to drop the trans brace for clearance issues.

Planning on rebuilding the old starter.

Ordered parts:
96721-19010 dipstick o-ring (didn't end up needing this.)
17173-38020 RH manifold gasket
17377-38010 air-tube gasket
94151-80600 nuts (2)
94151-80841 nuts (8)
90467-10210 clip (4)
90467-12069 (5)

I did FOBAR the stubs and nuts on the exh. manifold.
90126-10033 (3) manifold stud.
90179-10070 (3) manifold nut.

View attachment 2845007

View attachment 2845008



View attachment 2845010



No signs of anything that @bjowett encountered on the failure. I think my failure was the brushes wore out.

View attachment 2845011
Interesting on the brushes. Over 26 years of owning toyotas I've grown accustomed to solenoids failing when the brushes are just fine.

Mine also needed trans crossmember removal and fragged the downpipe studs.. but in my case they wouldn't come out of the manifold flange and the machine shop ended up cracking a primary to flange weld trying to get them out. Add $400 for a factory header.

Any thoughts on running the small-body starter vs the big-body one you took out?
 
@bloc Well to be honest, I think the solenoid is the failure point also. I find it hard to believe the brushes wore out that fast but that was my first thought as I saw all the brush material on the table after I took it apart. If after testing I find that the solenoid is the culprit then I'll run the small one and keep the original as a spare with a new solenoid.


And damn those manifold studs are expensive.
 
And damn those manifold studs are expensive.
Yes they are. I wish I had thought ahead to put anti-seize on the exposed threads before the nut passed over them during loosening. PB blaster wasn't enough. They didn't gall until a few threads out from fully tight.. and I don't even have any rust on my truck.
 
OK starter update, the plunging solenoid was good. The yoke assembly, which I’m pointing to was the culprit. This was the diagnosis from NAPA where I took it to get tested real quick.

Also an E-10 external star socket is needed to get the studs out.

image.jpg
 
My starter went out w/ 108k miles. All of the internals actually look pretty good... but I tend to over do things when in this deep.

In addition to replacing the solenoid, there is a plastic lever that the solenoid uses to actuate the starter gear... Replace this, too. Part number is 28114-38020 and it retails for a whopping $1.84.

Can I confirm- if I replace the starter with a factory 200 replacement (not the larger version)- do I still need to order the plastic lever? Or does a new starter come with it?

At 95k miles this is in my future I'm sure... :(
 
The plastic lever is a part of the starter assembly. You would only order it if you are disassembling and rebuilding to old one.
 
Well the new starter works very well.
Some how I was fortunate enough to not have any stud break off on the manifold and this allowed me to put the cats in a little easier.

I put anti-seize on ever thread that I touched.

2F28C4A1-9CD9-47C1-BC84-D61E1E8D8AED.jpeg
 
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So here’s to getting the starter out. (203K miles on the vehicle as of today.)
All the bolts on the manifold are easy to get to and didn't mare up.
The one bad thing that I encountered was when dropping the right cat pipe, I had to drop the trans brace for clearance issues.

Planning on rebuilding the old starter.

Ordered parts:
96721-19010 dipstick o-ring (didn't end up needing this.)
17173-38020 RH manifold gasket
17377-38010 air-tube gasket
94151-80600 nuts (2)
94151-80841 nuts (8)
90467-10210 clip (4)
90467-12069 (5)

I did FOBAR the stubs and nuts on the exh. manifold.
90126-10033 (3) manifold stud.
90179-10070 (3) manifold nut.

View attachment 2845007

View attachment 2845008



View attachment 2845010



No signs of anything that @bjowett encountered on the failure. I think my failure was the brushes wore out
Nice write up and thanks for sharing. Is the gasket for the exhaust manifold the same part # for the left and right side (driver and passenger). Looks like it is the same? I plan on keeping these parts on hand for when/if this needs replacement. As i get above 100k it is always in the back of my mind when out on the trails.
 
Is the gasket for the exhaust manifold the same part # for the left and right side (driver and passenger). Looks like it is the same? I plan on keeping these parts on hand for when/if this needs replacement.
Yes left and right exhaust manifold to head gaskets are the same.
 

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