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no motor is level, tranny is level, well the motor/tranny tilts about 4degrees
negative to connect to the divorced np205. with my gearing i can put it in 5th and at (a guess) 45mph it will still whip your neck. i can drive it on a gooseneck trailer in 1st gear 2wd high only using the clutch. its wierd that all you need is a brake foot and clutch foot. i have not been able to stall the motor. 5th gear standstill in a 6200 lb truck at idle and i can dump the clutch and it lugs, but doesnt stall.
 
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Its time to tweak it to get it to smoke. Have you done anything to the pump.
I'm thinkin injectors, intercooler for mine then maybe water injection. I want to make it so I just use 8th all the time. even though I've got 8gears right now I only use it like a three speed.
 

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Oh...Durka Durka Durka.
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Do you mean propane injection, and not water?
 
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no water injection, They inject water and I think alcohol aft of the turbo and its suposed to cool your egt's like 300 degress
 
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but propane or nitrous would be cool too
 

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Oh...Durka Durka Durka.
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Propane will blow your mind...you want NOTHING to do with nitrous in that engine...
 
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yeah i'll probably just get a bigger turbo before that, its just I wonder if a little 4 will spool up an HX35.
 
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How soon till you blow up the stock trans or transfer is the question?

I doubt you will see any EGT problems to justify water injection after turbo, nor will you benifit much from either propane or nitrous. YOU have rotary pump.

I also noticed that you say it is a 94 motor, painted industrial color. I would be interested in possibly knowing where you purchased the motor from?

also anyone know when inline pumps came out on the 4bt? and what applications?

i do apoligize if you answered any of these questions in other threads as i just have looked through this one.
 

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Not aware of a HP rating from the factory, that the rotory pump would not put out on the 4B, necessitating the inline bosch, or other make pump.
 
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Personally I would go nitrous for the power then Propane to help bring down the EGTs. An intercooler for starts is a must. I can try and get some pics of my propane kit that's sitting on the floor if you want....I hope to get it in the HJ61 this summer. My problem is making the intercooler fit.

If I was going to do it again I would have bought the nitrous first and then added the propane. I love any deisel, but turbo deisels ROCK.
 
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[quote author=HI^C link=board=12;threadid=10058;start=msg109196#msg109196 date=1077579077]
nor will you benifit much from either propane or nitrous. YOU have rotary pump.[/quote]

Why is this? Isn't it the injection type (IDI compare to DI) that makes the difference on adding drugs to a deisel?
 
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WHAT?

his pics show a rotary pump on his engine.
These can have a inline pump for a 4bt and it is available in a factory application, but i do not know where and in what, hence my question. I only ask as i figure maybe he came across one or someone reading about the writeup would know.

Now having a rotary pump limits everything that is possible with the power of the engine vs having a inline pump. Which is a good and a bad thing, limits overall output to help control amount of broken parts, but when you upgrade parts you cannot up the power. YES, power can be increased some from stock.
 
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blue
yes and no and i dont know, LOL

Most used purpose of running drugs, to burn more fuel hence more power. Problem is rotary pump, not enough fuel to justify adding such items.
nitrous would really not have enough fuel to use it. propane could be added and it could benifit some, enough to justify having it? i dont think so. if you have a cheap source for propane and need it for MPG then maybe. As for numbers using any drugs on a rotary 4bt, i dont have any, and dont think it is worth it. Difference in idi and di as to wether or not you can use drugs i also dont know. DRUGS ARE BAD southpark, lol

also damn grid heaters and plugin is highly overrated, only to help aid in starting and help control emissions. grid heat only needed when below about 40 degrees or so to help start, then it can be turned off. And plugin in is only needed for the people that need instant morning heat in the vehicle (women) or if your in extreme - degree temps.
 
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LOL

I forget to think in terms of my cruiser some times. :whoops: I tweaked my Chev with the Duramax and it's all computer controlled. If it needs more fuel, it gets more fuel, just need to program that little black box to compinsate.

I thought of using pi on my 3B but was wisely advised against it becuase of the pre-cup and IDI. I still think it would be neat to do some destructive testing on one of those old motors though......

My hj is DI and has an inline pump so I hope I can make everything mesh. I would like to see over 200hp at the wheels :D

Sorry for the hi-jack

I think you should throw the nitrous on the thing and go till she blows :eek:
 

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Living in MN, is hardly extreme sub-zero F. temps, but if it is below +35F, it gets plugged in, it does help, and does make a difference..'96 Cummins/dodge dually. Yes, I have started the truck, not plugged in at minus 33F, only because I did not have access to electricity where I was staying. The charge air heater that you talk negatively about helps considerably also. If it were so over rated, one would not find many other diesel engine manufactures using them, but that is simply not the case...

Oh, and from your post, I gather that you have not spent much time in minus 25F or more...The comment about instant morning heat is defiantly a fallacy, as the radiator is incredibly efficient, and any heat that is present in the system does very little, if anything to raise cabin air temps initially, and from my experience, the engine needs to run for quite a while in sub-zero temps to thaw out the cabin.

Back to the 4B pump issue...

Not that I have seen everything, but from the 4B engines that I have worked on, from bread vans to construction equipment, they have all been equipped with the stanadyne rotary pump, which yes, does limit the amount of fuel that can be added, and yes, and inline pump can be made to flow considerably more fuel, but, like I said, I was not aware of a HP rating from Cummins for the 4BT that required the inline injection pump, and I am not saying that they do not make it, only that I have not seen one set up that way, or that there is not someone who has made one work in their application.

Good luck!

-Steve
 
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HE IS IN CALI

He might never ever ever see 40 degrees or below, he would not really have any use for either items.

I need to fix my statements, it is 45 degrees that the grid heaters can be activated and preheat is the only needed operation. POST heat is for emissions only. as per cummins book of some sort layin infront of me at the moment.

does you need to plug the heater in at all times, does the engine start and run with out being plugged in. is it needed for engine operation? ok that was the point.

anything warmer then outside temp is heat, radiator has no effect hence the use of a stat.

i believe visually that we are looking at a bosch ve pump, and i believe most i have seen run the bosch pump.

the two 4bt inlines i know of, were purchased direct from cummins, but i assume they have an application of some sort.

i just own and tinker, i dont do this everyday.
 

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hic-

HE IS IN CALI

Well aware of that, thanks....



He might never ever ever see 40 degrees or below, he would not really have any use for either items.

Also, aware....


I need to fix my statements, it is 45 degrees that the grid heaters can be activated and preheat is the only needed operation. POST heat is for emissions only. as per cummins book of some sort layin infront of me at the moment.



Yes, and the fact that the charge air is warm, does help with the combustion process initially, to help with startup. This is not something that is specific to Cummins, and there are many other diesel engine manufactures that are using this type of starting aid, and while your climate may not need this component, there are many others that do, and to trivialize them, could lead to misinformation..



does you need to plug the heater in at all times, does the engine start and run with out being plugged in. is it needed for engine operation? ok that was the point.

Kinda lost here with this...the truck has not ever not started, but I have found that the truck starts far easier when the block is warm in very cold conditions..fwiw...




anything warmer then outside temp is heat, radiator has no effect hence the use of a stat.


My comment about the efficiency of the radiator, was put in the wrong area of that post, but is not wrong about cold weather operation. I fully understand the operation of the stat. and that it is closed until a specified coolant temp is reached. Do you have first-hand time in any cold weather? The heat that the block heater creates does nothing for warming the cabin of the vehicle, especially when it is very cold out...granted the coolant is warmer than the ambiant air temp, but I can promise you that there is not any warm air entering the cabin from the heater system, until the engine is pleanty warmed up, and again, because the cooling system is so efficient in the Dodge, there have been times that I have put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to block airflow, and get more heat in the engine, to get more heat into the cabin, when the temps get really low...


i believe visually that we are looking at a bosch ve pump, and i believe most i have seen run the bosch pump.

Could very well be...


the two 4bt inlines i know of, were purchased direct from cummins, but i assume they have an application of some sort.

I am sure that they do. There are far more industrial 4B engines than the automotive versions..Many equipment manufactures have used them over the years...



i just own and tinker, i dont do this everyday.


Good luck!

-Steve
 
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I have a rotary pump in mine and have done lots of reading about it. Personally, I don't plan to jack mine up in the slightest, increasing fuel also makes it much louder and will probably affect reliability. I have heard with an intercooler the max output of the rotary pump, "tweaked," is about 200hp! Which is quite a bit. Mine is rated to 120 hp from the factory w/ intercooler and is a '91 model. Whether or not to do it, that is a good question. Mine already feels great and feels pretty good, actually accellerates pretty well and quickly and isn't super duper loud other than the 1' of exhaust on it. But it actually isn't too bad... If I were to tweak it, I would do it minimally...

Here is a photo from a website telling you how to tweak it, this photo is all over the web and people tweak them all the time. The pump is real common and is in everything from Volvos to Land Rovers to even Cummins..
ve_pump.jpg


Here is the page with the information about tweaking:
http://www.tstproducts.com/pump_adjustment.html

Hope it helps....

Now, regarding the cold have'nt had a whole lot of experience with the Cummins. With my 2H in my old HJ60, all winter I lived in Alta where it is freezing and we got over 600" of snow that winter and it always started right up. It would run like ass for a minute or two but did make a difference. When I could plug it in, the difference in startup was phenominal. They say 90% of engine wear (whether this is true or not) comes from cold engine starts. I believe it. Personally I plan to plug the Cummins in here in Northern Utah, I think it will make quite a difference...
 
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Also RE inline versus rotary, I have read lots of stuff about it. There used to be a site by a guy named Lou Chou about tweaking his Cummins. Him, and Alan Lungi who had a 4BT in his rock crawler, both had the P1700 inline pump. Both pumps came from Cummins and were very expensive upgrades, and in both cases used high output injectors, throttle plates etc and each one was putting out over 600 ft/lbs of torque, who knows how much hp. Alan Lungi could literally drive it into a vertical wall and it wouldn't stall it would crawl up it! I read on a site about motor homes and diesel engines, about someone who turned up the pump and it blew up their 6BT. I think it can have some negative reprocussions. Not sure what the OEM application was for the pump, but I'm sure it's out there, probaby from later models. I think the new ISBs use a similar pump and minimum power is at least 400 ft/lbs...
 
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Well The whole rotary and inline thing I would have to agree that with an inline you could probably deliver more fuel but in order to do this you'll have too buy some gear compared to turning a few bolts and screws. on the other hand I beleive the rotary gan give as much fuel as you need. A friend of mine has a 91 twelve valve dodge(exhaust and gauges) that we tweaked and it would hit 1200 degrees and 30lbs. no problem before we turned it back down a little bit.

I'm not sure about the inline but with the rotary you can specifically tune it the way you like(ie Low boost smoke= boost at idle!!!)

I don't think I'll ever convert over to an inline because of the price and the fact that it didn't come with that pump. The fact that the injection is the most complicated and scariest things to work on I'll just keep tweaking the pump I've got.

As for were I got my motor I got it from a place in goergia called the Diesel Depot. I t cost 2300 before sdhipping and came out of a frito lay van. I beleive that the dodge 12 vales started coming with an inline pump in 94(maybe)
 

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