Intermittent Starter Problem (1 Viewer)

[skeezix]

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, when I turn the key to the Start position, I hear a loud click coming from the lower engine compartment, but the starter motor does not spin. I can hear a hum which I assume is caused by current going through the magnetic switch (newspeak for solenoid??). After turning the key off and back on a few times, the starter acts normally.

The problem occurs whether the engine is hot or cold. Actuating the clutch override switch does not help. When I start the motor with the headlights on, they do not dim, and the starter turns normally so I don't believe the battery (2 years old) is the problem.

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone out here??

I suspect a bad contact somewhere but after reading the service manual I'm afraid that disassembling and reassembling the starter is beyond my abilities.

Edit 9/24/2010: PROBLEM RESOLVED BY REPLACING STARTER SOLENOID CONTACTS

 

[raydouble]

The click is caused by a low voltage condition usually at the starter solenoid caused by the solenoid contacts or plunger.....
Read more and testing procedure here....
Toyota/Chrysler/Mitsubishi - Nippon Denso Starter Solenoid Repair

What vehicle and what engine?

 

[primer7]

Probably need new brushes in the starter, you can do it yourself if your handy, or just get a new one.

 

[Duane]

I third the motion..sounds like time to remove and refirbish the starter&solenoid.. likely the solenoid hanging up

 

[zetasig]

Would start with the starter contacts, I got mine a few years back from an electric motor shop for 11 bucks out the door. Two pieces. I think the guy said all nippon denso contacts are the same. I think.

There are some write ups. It took me about an hour to replace them. I did not remove the starter from the truck. 3.4 and its a PITA to get the starter out. Just rested it on top of the rack and pinion. I did not mess with anything else other than spraying everyting down with electrical contact cleaner to get the crud out.

probably close to 130,000 miles on the original contacts, Unknown how many starts though..

 

[raydouble]

Here is a writeup to getting the contacts replaced.....for a 4Runner anyway......anything else with a 5VZ engine should be similar.

I didn't find the starter to be that terrible to get out, just had to wiggle it through.....

(Another) Starter Contacts Removal Thread! - Toyota - 4Runner . org Forum

 

[skeezix]

What vehicle and what engine?

Hi Ray,

1998 TRD, 3.4l engine

Battery terminals and connectors have been cleaned. No help.

Crawled underneath vehicle and

Looks like only way to remove starter is thru the wheelwell. Now I need to find a reliable source for a NEW motor (too many horror stories about "remanufactured" ones).

Not sure what brand to pop for.

 

[raydouble]

Hi Ray,

1998 TRD, 3.4l engine

Battery terminals and connectors have been cleaned. No help.

Crawled underneath vehicle and

Looks like only way to remove starter is thru the wheelwell. Now I need to find a reliable source for a NEW motor (too many horror stories about "remanufactured" ones).

Not sure what brand to pop for.

None, follow the link above and replace the contacts and plunger in the solenoid. Link in my sigline has part numbers.
If you don't feel you can do the work yourself, pay someone to do the solenoid rebuild, money well spent.
A Denso starter from 1998 will not (in 99.9% of cases) have worn through a set of brushes yet.
Besides the two sets of contacts I've put in my 1990 22RE starter, it's still all original.

 

[zetasig]

I second what Ray said.

When I looked at OEM starters they were over 300 bucks a few years back.

I did the contacts for close to 12 bucks, No issues since, and its been a few years since I did the contacts. The write up is good. You CAN replace the contacts without removing the starter from the truck, Its easier to do it on a bench, but can also be done under the vehicle.

We have a thing called rust in Michigan, and I am leary about attempting to remove any bolts and nuts that I dont need to (snapping and stripping parts makes things worse). I think removing the starter calls for undoing some exhaust bolts and a few other items.

Good luck.

 

[skeezix]

The independent mechanic wants $185 for a rebuilt Denso, the dealer wants about $250 for the same.

After following the many links you provided and others I stumbled upon, I decided to replace the contacts through the wheelwell.

I'm with you about the rust. It can really sour one's day.

 

[zetasig]

10 4.

Its not a bad job, like many others take your time, I hope you dont have sausage fingers either, cause its tight in there.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[skeezix]

It took awhile but I managed. Followed a write-up with pix that explained about removing exhaust bracket and brakeline bracket. Had to remove motor from engine from underneath, and motor from vehicle thru wheelwell.

To help line up motor to engine I used a long screwdriver in the bottom mounting hole and worked from wheelwell. Then back underneath to wiggle motor into bellhousing and install top bolt.

Like all first-time jobs, seemed to take forever compared to the 2nd/3rd time around.

Contacts were bad, dealer sold me new ones for $8 each, dealer did not have kits and did not have plunger so I used a bit of sandpaper to clean up the copper contact ring.

I appreciate all the feedback from this forum!

 

[tholyoak]

Would you mind posting a link to the instructions you used? It looks like I'm going to have to do the same thing, and I've never done anything more complex than changing the brakes. Thanks!

 

[Jacket]

Here's one example.

Starter Contact Repair

Getting to the starter and removing it might be the hardest part of the job. Once you get access to the starter, just pull the top off, and R&R the two copper contacts. If you got a new plunger, slide the old one out and the new one in. When seating the new contacts, make sure they are flush and seated firmly when screwing them in. If they are "cockeyed" in any way, you might not get good contact and be doing the same job again in 6-12 months.

 

[skeezix]

tholyoak,

I hunted around for threads involving starter repair a few months ago. Each was different because each covered a different type of vehicle-4runner, 1988 truck, 2004, etc. I did not find one specifically for my 1998 V6, but I did have enough info to guide me through.

Couple of caveats-

Do not start until you have the complete kit in your hot little hands. Don't settle for just a couple of solenoid contacts like I did. You should replace the contacts AND the plunger while you're at it.

When you remove the plunger and spring, watch out for the small ball that's still inside the housing. It can fall out if you're not looking and roll out of site. You'll never know the difference until everything is back together and you turn the key!

When you reinstall the motor, be extra careful with the two little plugs that go into the main starter housing. These are not plugs, they are little dust filters in rubber plug-like housings (about 1/4 inch in diameter and 1/2-3/4 inch long. The plug into the housing quite easily and by the way they come out quite easily as well, especially when you are trying to oink the starter back into position.

If one of the little filter plugs comes out, STOP. Do not proceed until you get it back in. Without that plug, who knows how much road water, stream water, and hose water will find its way into the starter housing and muck everything up, not to mention the dust (if you drive dirt roads).

To help align the starter during reinstallation, I see a drift pin (an old pushrod, actually - showing my age here). Shove the pin through the top mounting hole from the back and let it stick out a few inches towards the front of the vehicle. Work the upper starter mounting hole onto the pin and then as close to the engine housing as you can. The drift pin will hold it in place if your wrist gets tired. Then take your mounting bolt and from the front of the vehicle, carefully push the drift pin back with the bolt while stabilizing the starter with your free hand. That will help you get the bolt started.

The hard part about aligning the starter is getting the starter gear to mesh with the flywheel gear. At least it was for me.

Snug up the upper bolt, then install the lower one. If you have (and use where necessary) two 10-inch ratchet extensions you will experience much joy when installing the lower starter bolt.

Oh BTW, when I removed the starter through the wheel well, IIRC I guided it straight out from the bell housing, then angled it up and around so the little gear was oriented some somewhat up and towards me. I lifted it up and then had to point the little gear straight up. That and a few FMA's and a couple GDI's later it came right out. Going in was another story but it IS possible ; )

Finally, when you remove the old contacts be damn sure you note the order in which the insulators came off. Mine had thin paper insulators. If your's has them, don't tear them or you'll be singing the blues. If you are not sure that you reinstalled the insulators the right way, use an ohmmeter to make sure there is no short circuit between each copper contact and the solenoid housing.

Good luck! Actually I shouldn't be saying that - luck doesn't work, and a little patience goes a long ways.