Insurance value for highly customized '94 FZJ80

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Insurance value for highly customized '94 FZJ80 - SETTLED

Greeting!

An old lady destroyed my Cruiser! Argh, it was perfect. So, now I have to wrangle with her insurance to get a fair value, since they think its totaled. The frame is bent pretty bad up front and the radiator is cracked, also leaking oil now. SAD!

Settled for $15K, details in comment #65 of this thread. Thanks!

So, the brief rundown:
Body was perfect, no rust. Clearcoat issue on the front fenders.
ARB bull bar
Defender roof rack (full length, 6 supports per side)
6 beamers and 2 working lights mounted
Slee Part time kit
Kaymar rear bumper tire carrier
Pro-comp extreme wheels and tires
OME 3" left on front and back (springs and nitro shocks)
Electric lockers
remote start and alarm
Nice 8 speaker aftermarket audio
freakin' clean rig!
~200K on the ODO

So I guess I need to find another rig, but I want to make sure I get a decent amount out of this, since its now a huge mess.

Thanks in advance for any relies, I know its a bit OT.
 
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Sorry to here about your bad luck. Can you post up some photos?
 
I'd definitely try to buy that back from the insurance company. Get a check for the difference and find a nice shell. Sounds like one heck of a parts truck.
 
If nothing else, buy it back and part it out!
 
Since it is her fault you have a lot of extra leverage against the ins company.

First either have the truck sent to your home, or a repair shop you trust. Never let the other ins company take it to their lot.

Try to round up receipts for the parts. I'm not sure where you are, but most states require that the insurance company return you to the position you were in before the accident. That includes anything you have attached to the vehicle.

Search auto trader for similar rigs within 200 miles. That should get you to a good starting place before the extras are added.

Bear in mind the insurance company will probably not pay you for the extra parts if you decide to buy back the rig.

Don't be afraid to get a lawyer involved. If your first talk with the adjuster does not go well mention that you will be calling your lawyer. That will often make them much more willing to negotiate.
 
If she's at fault, they need to cover everything you had. The point of insurance is to return your property to the condition it was in before the accident occurred. So in that case, either replace and/or give you cash to substitute a like condition landcruiser including any modifications you had. Simple as that. If the claims adjuster tries to save money, push back. If they don't budge, ask for a supervisor and say something along the lines of what I said. "if your insured hadn't hit me, I wouldn't be in this mess." ... Who is the 3rd parties insurance company?
 
Frankencruiser said:
Don't be afraid to get a lawyer involved. If your first talk with the adjuster does not go well mention that you will be calling your lawyer. That will often make them much more willing to negotiate.

Haha, we went in the same direction @ the same time ... But with this statement, call YOUR insurance company. You pay for car insurance, it's not a product, it's a SERVICE. Your insurance can help w/ the subrogation of your claim with them if you have a decent company.
 
Location has a huge part, where are you from?

FWIW, insurance in the PNW judged the value of my '96 and '97 at ~$12k. Oregon does state that it is the market value for a like vehicle, and you can't find a '96 or '97 on a lot in as good shape or low miles (~150k) on the cheap, so that no doubt played a part.

For your vehicle, a few years older and 50k more miles would drop that some, but not a ton. Just my personal WAG I'd say maybe $8k-$9k, but I have no idea as to the condition of the vehicle, state specific insurance laws, or comp values which all play a part.

Most insurance co's won't pay for aftermarket upgrades unless they were declared and paid for as part of the policy. Did you claim them? It's not always worth it as often they can be swapped out (if the vehicle is bought back).

Don't accept their first offer. I've never had the first offer be the best one they'll give. They often hope that you'll accept it and save them a bunch of money.

Do learn the insurance laws in your state. Insurance co's will play fast and loose with them sometimes, and not give you what the law specifies they should. As an example, in Oregon they have to replace with like, but on my truck they wanted to total it out at around $6k value. It wasn't until I did my own comparison research and handed over a stack of print outs of dealer pricing for similar vehicles that they revised their estimate to more than twice their initial (which ended up not totaling the vehicle).

Do post pictures. We all love carnage shots.


Good luck with it all, and don't be afraid to ask questions. :cheers:
 
photos

wrecked.jpg
before-wreck.jpg
 
Really, it doesn't look too bad, but the frame is tweaked at least 3 inches to the passenger side.

It was not my fault, so its the other driver's insurance I am dealing with (State Farm).

So far, I only know that its gone to the "Total Loss Unit". As far as parts I have around $7000 in receipts for various bits here and there over the last 24 months or so.
 
I have an attorney on retainer with my company (I'm a founding partner), so that is taken care of, and I have already talked with him and told the Ins co as much. I have little patience for this sort of nonsense so I had that lined out within 4 hours of the accident.

You may have noticed that I am in Missouri from the plates. The vehicle was originally from southern Texas.

The vehicle is at my house, I drove it home after the accident, so no worries there. We have a very poor Toyota dealership here, so its not likely that I will take it there. I am more interested in talking with folks that restore these for estimates.
 
Don't hold your breath about getting fair value for you goodies. You are best off to retain your parts or buy it back.
The total loss unit will low ball you and tell you they don't negotiate settlements. It's BS but you will have to string them along for awhile and find some leverage.
Get everything in writing, including the reports used to validate your ride. Look up your state insurance board and read the laws pertaining to claims and legal validation methods. If they are not following the rules, which is likely, the insurance board is your best friend.

As stated before, keep the truck in your possession, preferably, locked in a garage.
 
Don't hold your breath about getting fair value for you goodies. You are best off to retain your parts or buy it back.
The total loss unit will low ball you and tell you they don't negotiate settlements. It's BS but you will have to string them along for awhile and find some leverage.
Get everything in writing, including the reports used to validate your ride. Look up your state insurance board and read the laws pertaining to claims and legal validation methods. If they are not following the rules, which is likely, the insurance board is your best friend.

As stated before, keep the truck in your possession, preferably, locked in a garage.

This is all good advice, and I share the general pessimism from previous dealings with insurance companies. That said, I have resolved that I shall not get the short end of the stick in this case. I do plan to leverage any and all means necessary to effect getting what that truck is worth, if it takes months. Just a base estimate from the receipts I have and a basic survey of the market puts this truck at around $11,000 before the accident. I did omit a great deal of info from my brief listing in the OP for the sake of keeping things brief.

I wish I could store it in a garage, but it won't fit in mine, too tall with the rack.
 
Ugh... State farm.... My wife used to be a marketing person for them.. You gotta fight.... For your right.... To get paaaaiiiiiid.
 
Valid receipts are your friend when the negotiations start. Hope it all ends well for you in the state of Misery (I lived there for 38 horrible years). :hillbilly:
 
Looks like she tagged the side of the ARB, that sound correct?

Looks like you had a good wheeling rig started. Buy it back, get the frame straightened (it won't be perfect, but should be enough it drives fine), and :steer: the crap out of it. Use the money you get from insurance to finish the build (like a rear bumper!).

If it were my truck I'd keep it.
 
Looks like she tagged the side of the ARB, that sound correct?

Looks like you had a good wheeling rig started. Buy it back, get the frame straightened (it won't be perfect, but should be enough it drives fine), and :steer: the **** out of it. Use the money you get from insurance to finish the build (like a rear bumper!).

If it were my truck I'd keep it.

Yep, she ran a red without slowing doing about 40mpg and we collided. I was traveling around 25mpg or so. It hit right on the corner and buckled the ARB outside of the driver's side vertical. I will keep it most likely, is a hell of a truck, if I can get it straight cheap enough. Mainly I use it to go into the back country and to the river for canoing.

Who needs a rear bumper :D It was so close to complete its killing me.
 
Like others have said
Get the insurance company to offer you as much as you can and then buy back the vehicle from them and collect a check from them as well and fix it and drive it.
I would look into salvaged title laws in your state as well, all states are different, you dont want to buy it back and find out you cant get registered
Also if you keep it you need to ask your insurance company about their policies with regards to insuring a salvaged titled vehicle, some companies wont insure them, is what I have heard.
Good luck
 
Before I bought my LC I got f***ed by my own insurance company on my mint '72 Datsun 240Z.

Got hit by a guy who literally had JUST arrived in the USA, he had no clue how to drive, and yet the state of Texas decided that his "for show" Singapore driver license was sufficient to grant him a TX DL. What a joke. Anyway, he failed to yield at an intersection, and I wound up with a no-rust never-been-wrecked mint condition 240Z with a crooked unibody -- totaled.

I thought (incorrectly) that I would get a straighter deal going through MY OWN insurance company (Allstate). I figured they would give me a good settlement, then it was their problem to get reimbursed by the other company, either by settlement or litigation. Thing is, your own insurance company is not on your side, regardless of what you have heard. They want you to take as low of a settlement as possible, because then it's far easier to get reimbursed by the company of the driver at fault and they don't have to waste time/money going to court.

Some people say "get control of the car ASAP," but in retrospect, I strongly disagree. If I had to do it over again, I would have had my Z left at the body shop I chose until we agreed on a total loss value (my right, as per Texas law). Body shops (especially the higher end ones, like I chose) charge a ridiculous amount for storage, on the order of $100s/day in some cases. By demanding my Z be brought home so I could "protect it" in my garage only meant that I lost all leverage for having the insurance company quickly agree to my terms. What happened next was a waiting game, and they won.

They first lowballed me with an insulting value of about 1/4 the market value as I ascertained it by looking at other sales and auction values from Barrett-Jackson, etc. I tried to hold out, but I'm a poor bastard in graduate school, and my dream car, my Z, was my only car. I needed that money, and I needed transportation. In the end I settled for about 1/2 of what I should have received.

Prior to this waiting game, I prepared myself as best I could do demonstrate the value of my car. I had printouts showing sales and professional appraisals of '72 240Zs in similar and even poorer condition than mine that were valued much higher than what I settled for.

I had receipts going back over the prior 8 years showing all the restoration work I had done, all the upgrades, etc. In the end, it was all a waste of time. The appraisal forms and sales figures were dismissed because they "use their own system" and did a "market value analysis" showing the average prices of "similar cars." What they used to justify their figures was ridiculous -- rusted out hulks being sold in Detroit (Japanese steel from back then would not hold up in a northern winter worth a damn) for $500. Lots of sales like this conveniently popped up in their figures to bring the average down to a laughable level.

The parts receipts were all dismissed as having been irrelevant because all the work had been done prior to 60 days in advance of the wreck, so their value was not factored into their "calculations." I had the original matching numbers engine completely rebuilt, only 8000 miles on it. Did that count? Hell no, because it was completed just over 3 years before the wreck (their time-limit on 'major work'), even though I kept that car in the garage and only drove it on nice days. Not even 3-4 oil changes on that motor.

I tried to buy the wreck back, thinking I'd put it in storage and use it as a parts car for my next Z project, but they came back to me with a ridiculous amount for the buyback price. I'd essentially not have enough money leftover to buy any kind of roadworthy vehicle to live my life. They claimed some salvage yard made that bid, but I can't shake the feeling that it was just a big "f**k you buddy" for putting up a fight.

Anyway, I learned a few lessons for when it's the OTHER guy's fault (for Texas laws, anyway, maybe similar in MO?):

1) Make sure your vehicle is sitting in the lot of YOUR body shop of choice, charging a good healthy storage/impound daily rate. It'll make it worth their while to go the extra mile and resolve your case quickly and to your satisfaction -- they can't close that case until you agree to their settlement, and the longer you wait, the more it's going to cost them. Throw in the expense of a rental car, all the better. I was stupid and declined taking a rental because I mistakenly thought the cost of the rental would reduce the size of the settlement I could get, and I figured I would be OK for the short term bike commuting. BIG MISTAKE. DO NOT let them move the car to their "body shop of choice" for an estimate. All this means is that they want to move it to a shop that doesn't charge them the daily storage fee, which kills your leverage on getting things taken care of quickly.

2) Wait them out. They want to close your case ASAP, and if you have (1) on lockdown, you have the upper hand. Reject their offers until they make you one you're satisfied with. When they give you a "true market value," demand to see their calculations, and how they arrived at that value. Demand to see detailed documentation on the vehicles they used for comparison (it could even be as few as ONE other vehicle). Be resolute in telling them their comparison is bulls**t, and exactly why -- point out all the differences, and how your car was FAR superior (I assure you, the example(s) they use will be a JOKE).

3) Go through the other guy's insurance, if only initially. I discovered the reason for this little gem when I went to change insurance companies afterward (I couldn't in good conscience stay with Allstate after how they hosed me, their own customer, with an impeccable driving record. Too many bitter feelings). If you file a claim with your insurance, even if it's the other guy's fault, it counts against you in the future. Yep. I applied to State Farm afterward, and apparently they make no distinction between at-fault and not-at-fault claims. My insurance rate now is significantly higher than it would have been if I had just gone through the other guy's insurance and kept it off mine.

4) Be prepared to say what you think your car is worth and what you deserve, very resolutely, and with confidence. Hell, even blow the figure up some, they probably will not give you exactly what you want, so overshoot it. Find whatever you can to justify your figure. Receipts, auction results, professional appraisals of similar vehicles, etc. This is primarily for ammunition in your waiting game, giving you a rationalization for your refusal of their lowball offers. DO NOT BACK DOWN.

You already have a lawyer in your corner, sounds like a good start. I wish I had that as a resource when I had my problem back in January.

Big hard lesson for me. I had always planned to get a classic car policy with an agreed-upon value, i.e. Haggerty. Unfortunately I never got around to buying a junker car to claim as my primary vehicle to qualify for a policy like that. Other guys in my club used Haggerty and had their Zs totaled, and they have drastically different stories to tell. Apparently they just said "yup, totaled" and mailed out a check for the full agreed-upon value. Afterward, they even helped them source cars and some parts for their next projects. Great service.

You know, you spend your whole life paying your insurance, on time, every month, and god forbid you miss a payment, because if you do, they will throw you to the wolves. The SECOND you need them to make good on their end of the contract you've been faithfully upholding your end of, they will fight you tooth and nail down to the very last penny. Doesn't matter how nice your agent is, hell, ours was the guy down the street where I grew up. All he does is sell you the policy. It's the faceless juggernaut of the insurance corporation that will be the one telling you "tough luck" when the time comes.
 
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AndrewInf said:
Before I bought my LC I got f***ed by my own insurance company on my mint '72 Datsun 240Z.

Got hit by a guy who literally had JUST arrived in the USA, he had no clue how to drive, and yet the state of Texas decided that his "for show" Singapore driver license was sufficient to grant him a TX DL. What a joke. Anyway, he failed to yield at an intersection, and I wound up with a no-rust never-been-wrecked mint condition 240Z with a crooked unibody -- totaled.

I thought (incorrectly) that I would get a straighter deal going through MY OWN insurance company (Allstate). I figured they would give me a good settlement, then it was their problem to get reimbursed by the other company, either by settlement or litigation. Thing is, your own insurance company is not on your side, regardless of what you have heard. They want you to take as low of a settlement as possible, because then it's far easier to get reimbursed by the company of the driver at fault and they don't have to waste time/money going to court.

Some people say "get control of the car ASAP," but in retrospect, I strongly disagree. If I had to do it over again, I would have had my Z left at the body shop I chose until we agreed on a total loss value (my right, as per Texas law). Body shops (especially the higher end ones, like I chose) charge a ridiculous amount for storage, on the order of $100s/day in some cases. By demanding my Z be brought home so I could "protect it" in my garage only meant that I lost all leverage for having the insurance company quickly agree to my terms. What happened next was a waiting game, and they won.

They first lowballed me with an insulting value of about 1/4 the market value as I ascertained it by looking at other sales and auction values from Barrett-Jackson, etc. I tried to hold out, but I'm a poor bastard in graduate school, and my dream car, my Z, was my only car. I needed that money, and I needed transportation. In the end I settled for about 1/2 of what I should have received.

Prior to this waiting game, I prepared myself as best I could do demonstrate the value of my car. I had printouts showing sales and professional appraisals of '72 240Zs in similar and even poorer condition than mine that were valued much higher than what I settled for.

I had receipts going back over the prior 8 years showing all the restoration work I had done, all the upgrades, etc. In the end, it was all a waste of time. The appraisal forms and sales figures were dismissed because they "use their own system" and did a "market value analysis" showing the average prices of "similar cars." What they used to justify their figures was ridiculous -- rusted out hulks being sold in Detroit (Japanese steel from back then would not hold up in a northern winter worth a damn) for $500. Lots of sales like this conveniently popped up in their figures to bring the average down to a laughable level.

The parts receipts were all dismissed as having been irrelevant because all the work had been done prior to 60 days in advance of the wreck, so their value was not factored into their "calculations." I had the original matching numbers engine completely rebuilt, only 8000 miles on it. Did that count? Hell no, because it was completed just over 3 years before the wreck (their time-limit on 'major work'), even though I kept that car in the garage and only drove it on nice days. Not even 3-4 oil changes on that motor.

I tried to buy the wreck back, thinking I'd put it in storage and use it as a parts car for my next Z project, but they came back to me with a ridiculous amount for the buyback price. I'd essentially not have enough money leftover to buy any kind of roadworthy vehicle to live my life. They claimed some salvage yard made that bid, but I can't shake the feeling that it was just a big "f**k you buddy" for putting up a fight.

Anyway, I learned a few lessons for when it's the OTHER guy's fault (for Texas laws, anyway, maybe similar in MO?):

1) Make sure your vehicle is sitting in the lot of YOUR body shop of choice, charging a good healthy storage/impound daily rate. It'll make it worth their while to go the extra mile and resolve your case quickly and to your satisfaction -- they can't close that case until you agree to their settlement, and the longer you wait, the more it's going to cost them. Throw in the expense of a rental car, all the better. I was stupid and declined taking a rental because I mistakenly thought the cost of the rental would reduce the size of the settlement I could get, and I figured I would be OK for the short term bike commuting. BIG MISTAKE. DO NOT let them move the car to their "body shop of choice" for an estimate. All this means is that they want to move it to a shop that doesn't charge them the daily storage fee, which kills your leverage on getting things taken care of quickly.

2) Wait them out. They want to close your case ASAP, and if you have (1) on lockdown, you have the upper hand. Reject their offers until they make you one you're satisfied with. When they give you a "true market value," demand to see their calculations, and how they arrived at that value. Demand to see detailed documentation on the vehicles they used for comparison (it could even be as few as ONE other vehicle). Be resolute in telling them their comparison is bulls**t, and exactly why -- point out all the differences, and how your car was FAR superior (I assure you, the example(s) they use will be a JOKE).

3) Go through the other guy's insurance, if only initially. I discovered the reason for this little gem when I went to change insurance companies afterward (I couldn't in good conscience stay with Allstate after how they hosed me, their own customer, with an impeccable driving record. Too many bitter feelings). If you file a claim with your insurance, even if it's the other guy's fault, it counts against you in the future. Yep. I applied to State Farm afterward, and apparently they make no distinction between at-fault and not-at-fault claims. My insurance rate now is significantly higher than it would have been if I had just gone through the other guy's insurance and kept it off mine.

4) Be prepared to say what you think your car is worth and what you deserve, very resolutely, and with confidence. Hell, even blow the figure up some, they probably will not give you exactly what you want, so overshoot it. Find whatever you can to justify your figure. Receipts, auction results, professional appraisals of similar vehicles, etc. This is primarily for ammunition in your waiting game, giving you a rationalization for your refusal of their lowball offers. DO NOT BACK DOWN.

You already have a lawyer in your corner, sounds like a good start. I wish I had that as a resource when I had my problem back in January.

Big hard lesson for me. I had always planned to get a classic car policy with an agreed-upon value, i.e. Haggerty. Unfortunately I never got around to buying a junker car to claim as my primary vehicle to qualify for a policy like that. Other guys in my club used Haggerty and had their Zs totaled, and they have drastically different stories to tell. Apparently they just said "yup, totaled" and mailed out a check for the full agreed-upon value. Afterward, they even helped them source cars and some parts for their next projects. Great service.

You know, you spend your whole life paying your insurance, on time, every month, and god forbid you miss a payment, because if you do, they will throw you to the wolves. The SECOND you need them to make good on their end of the contract you've been faithfully upholding your end of, they will fight you tooth and nail down to the very last penny. Doesn't matter how nice your agent is, hell, ours was the guy down the street where I grew up. All he does is sell you the policy. It's the faceless juggernaut of the insurance corporation that will be the one telling you "tough luck" when the time comes.

Sound advice!!!!
Sound
 

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