In phase or out of phase?

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Yes, that is what the guy told me. That being said it might be a good idea if there are issues to contact one of the regular 4x4 driveshaft shops such as Woody's. The guy I worked with knows his stuff but his thing is racecars where angles aren't such a problem.

KS is going well. Work is another issue all together. By the way where are you now?
 
Ok, this "front shaft out of phase" thing has me puzzled. I know the book shows it that way but can anyone come up with even a lame reason that makes sense for assembling that way? I usually have respect for the original design intent but this one looks a bit whacked. Anyone?
 
I was always under the impression that u-joints "vibrated" and by putting them out of phase from each other the "vibrations" canceled each other out. So putting it in phase would cause more vibrations.
 
Ok, this "front shaft out of phase" thing has me puzzled. I know the book shows it that way but can anyone come up with even a lame reason that makes sense for assembling that way? I usually have respect for the original design intent but this one looks a bit whacked. Anyone?

I was always under the impression that u-joints "vibrated" and by putting them out of phase from each other the "vibrations" canceled each other out. So putting it in phase would cause more vibrations.

I agree, had this conversation with the driveshaft shop last week. They agreed that the broken back and out of phase setup is unique, not common, but couldn't come up with any good logical argument for the out of phase part.:confused:
 
I was always under the impression that u-joints "vibrated" and by putting them out of phase from each other the "vibrations" canceled each other out. So putting it in phase would cause more vibrations.

Correct. They vibrate in rotation: they accelerate and decelerate as they rotate. If you have a U-joint in your socket set it's easy to see this. Snap two extensions to each side of a U-joint, and spin one end. When the joint is straight, the output shaft will spin smoothly. As you flex the joint while spinning, the output shaft will spin more erratically, it's accelerating and decelerating twice per rotation.

If you add another U-joint and extension, you simulate our driveshafts. If the second U-joint is 90-degrees out of phase with the first, it will accelerate when the first U-joint decelerates, and decelerate when the first U-joint accelerates. So it cancels out the accelerating and decelerating, and the third shaft (diff) will turn smoothly. If it's in phase, it'll further accelerate and decelerate the third shaft. Driveshaft U-joints should always be 90-degrees out of phase, but that can take some complex geometry.

For the joints to perfectly cancel, the two joints have to have the same angle (bend). If the input (t-case) and output (diff) are both horizontal, and directly in line along the truck, the joints will always have the same bend as the suspension travels up and down. That's how our rear driveshafts work. The rear suspension hinges on long arms to keep the rear diff fairly horizontal. You'll notice the three shafts (in the t-case, driveshaft, and in the rear diff) are in the same vertical plane, they don't bend to the side like the front driveshaft.

The front driveshaft is more complicated: the three shafts aren't all in one plane. They don't have to be for this to work, but the joints have to be rotated so they bend at the correct phases to cancel each other. At stock height and normally loaded, they are correct. With the suspension stretched or compressed off-road they aren't correct, but there won't be vibrations at the low speeds encountered off-road. A lifted 80 might experience vibration because the front U-joints no longer cancel each other on the road, you might need to experiment or take some measurements to get that right.

Continuous velocity (CV) joints don't have yokes, and don't have this problem. They're more complicated, more expensive, harder to maintain, heavier, and less efficient, but take up less space than pairs of U-joints. Birfields are CV joints.
 
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Hmmm.... I totally get the standard driveshaft case (80 rear shaft) with the shaft accel/decel as it rotates. I'm still having problems with the front shaft. Even if the tcase flange is offset to one side relative the the pinion, That should have no impact on the phasing as long as the two flanges are reasonably parallel. I guess the aern't parallel in the stock config as the have been described as a "broken back" arrangement. The Pirate article touches on the "broken back" design but then shows the flanges phased the same as a conventional arrangement - although the pic is really small and hard to say for sure. I need to spend some time under my truck pondering this.
 
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Does anyone else find this funny? Or am I just delerious from dealing with a contractor all day?

Ashooter asked the question. Then the last post is talking about Broken Back Mountain...:lol:

Oh, this is funny.

On the subject though. I had mine balanced in phase after new u-joints. The d-shaft had a vibe above 50 mph. got worse with more speed.

I took it 90 out of phase, and most of the vibe was gone, even without rebalancing the shaft.

Shaft, ashooter, and Broken Back... Anybody hear some banjos?
 

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