I’m a week in and…. (1 Viewer)

[rexington14]

I own several 40s and a couple of 100s. When I drove a 200 it felt big and bloated so I passed on it. Yesterday, I went to drive the new Land Cruiser for the first time, and I was quite impressed with how well it drove. I was prepared to not like it, and almost immediately I liked it. Yes, at times it sounded like the four-cylinder that it is, but the torque made up for it.

As a fan of a lighter, more car like driving experience, I can appreciate this point.

I own a 100 and that's already "boaty" enough for me. Fine on the highway, and of course off road, but I can get annoyed driving it in what you would call city MPG conditions. The 200, although quicker, drives even bigger. Ironically this is what some here like the most about it whereas to me that characteristic is a negative more than a positive.

Driving feel matters. It's of course relative to the segment you are shopping, but which vehicle drives the most car like is one of the things I specifically look out for (especially in a daily driven vehicle) - quicker steering, less floaty, less boaty, less body roll, usable torque curve, etc. Mazda has built their entire identity on this concept and it's why their suv/crossover vehicles in particular drive noticeably better than the competition.

 

[joseywales]

you can buy a auto shutoff disabler, i bought one for my 2024 tundra and it works flawlessly and no more shutoff BS that's hard on the starter, oiling, battery etc

Link to the one you like?

Are you from Sooke by any chance?

 

[joseywales]

As a fan of a lighter, more car like driving experience, I can appreciate this point.

I own a 100 and that's already "boaty" enough for me. Fine on the highway, and of course off road, but I can get annoyed driving it in what you would call city MPG conditions. The 200, although quicker, drives even bigger. Ironically this is what some here like the most about it whereas to me that characteristic is a negative more than a positive.

Driving feel matters. It's of course relative to the segment you are shopping, but which vehicle drives the most car like is one of the things I specifically look out for (especially in a daily driven vehicle) - quicker steering, less floaty, less boaty, less body roll, usable torque curve, etc. Mazda has built their entire identity on this concept and it's why their suv/crossover vehicles in particular drive noticeably better than the competition.

I am one of the “ironic” people you speak of who prefers a more solid, truck-like experience in my vehicle. But, I also use my vehicles on cross ditched forestry roads literally every day.

One of my more “citified” (Mazda suv driving) friends showed up at our current property and I took him along on a regular day. I laughed at his reaction. He said “you drive here regularly??” and then said “now I see why you have all your vehicles lifted and buy those big tires”. It was very interesting for me to see someone else’s perspective on my daily reality.

I spent yesterday installing a 2” lift in my 250 and had already installed 10 ply Toyo RT Trails. Saturday morning I had all the lockers engaged to get myself back on the road after sliding off on a sidehill. I put a small blemish on the plastic lower bumper skirt, so got the first “scratch” out of the way.


All of that said, the lift and tires on my 250 only changed it’s smooth highway ride about 5%. It is still a very nice highway ride, and lost nothing in the power/driveability department.

 

[merbesfield]

you can buy a auto shutoff disabler, i bought one for my 2024 tundra and it works flawlessly and no more shutoff BS that's hard on the starter, oiling, battery etc

do you have a brand name? i looked into this for my 2024 GMC diesel, but i had to take apart half the dash just to install it, and that i am not willing to do.

 

[doc5339]

I am 20-days in and having some serious buyer's remorse.

Cross shopped against 2013-2015 G550 (G-Wagon) as well as L663 Defender 110 (owned previously) and *Bronco Raptor. Purchased the LC 250 primarily as the "prudent" choice less likely to have issues over time yet still very capable with strong aftermarket support. I wheel and take long road trips, often to go wheeling in other states (Colorado, Montana, Utah).

Key things bothering me even though I was not blind to some of them going into the purchase:
-Tin like sound of doors closing. Added additional weatherstripping though Dynamite Extreme (or similar) is in order to really get rid of it.
-Combined MPG is significantly lower (below 20 MPG) than EPA estimates on 93 Octane and driving very smoothly in Eco mode.
-Poor range; barely over 300-miles when driving well past fuel low warning. Much worse than my old L663 Defender 110 S.
-2.4-liter I4 turbo hybrid iForceMax always sounds and feels overworked.
-Volume knob is in a stupid location, inches away from steering wheel volume control yet more than arm's reach from passenger.
-No heat or ventilation at lumbar area (driver's seat).
-No lumbar adjustment for passenger.
-Heated Rear Seats are not an option.
-Odd paint chips in odd locations (not high wear areas) which make me question paint process and quality.
-Annoying safety and ADAS nags.
-Much worse body roll than my old L663 Defender 110 S.
-Seats not as comfy as my old...(I will stop).
-Not super important but the Toyota App and Toyota Dashcam apps really suck compared to even my Audi, and Land Rover apps.

Trying not to waste more money just getting rid of the LC 250, but these issues really do take away from the ownership experience. I am really hoping once I get out on the trail I will forget about much of it.

*edit: added vehicle

 

[Zill]

I am 20-days in and having some serious buyer's remorse.

Cross shopped against 2013-2015 G550 (G-Wagon) as well as L663 Defender 110 (owned previously) and *Bronco Raptor. Purchased the LC 250 primarily as the "prudent" choice less likely to have issues over time yet still very capable with strong aftermarket support. I wheel and take long road trips, often to go wheeling in other states (Colorado, Montana, Utah).

Key things bothering me even though I was not blind to some of them going into the purchase:
-Tin like sound of doors closing. Added additional weatherstripping though Dynamite Extreme (or similar) is in order to really get rid of it.
-Combined MPG is significantly lower (below 20 MPG) than EPA estimates on 93 Octane and driving very smoothly in Eco mode.
-Poor range; barely over 300-miles when driving well past fuel low warning. Much worse than my old L663 Defender 110 S.
-2.4-liter I4 turbo hybrid iForceMax always sounds and feels overworked.
-Volume knob is in a stupid location, inches away from steering wheel volume control yet more than arm's reach from passenger.
-No heat or ventilation at lumbar area (driver's seat).
-No lumbar adjustment for passenger.
-Heated Rear Seats are not an option.
-Odd paint chips in odd locations (not high wear areas) which make me question paint process and quality.
-Annoying safety and ADAS nags.
-Much worse body roll than my old L663 Defender 110 S.
-Seats not as comfy as my old...(I will stop).
-Not super important but the Toyota App and Toyota Dashcam apps really suck compared to even my Audi, and Land Rover apps.

Trying not to waste more money just getting rid of the LC 250, but these issues really do take away from the ownership experience. I am really hoping once I get out on the trail I will forget about much of it.

*edit: added vehicle

Time to step into a LX 570 or 200 LC

Find a lightly used rust free one (can be many months tracking down a clean one) and the value is there. Way more value than dropping ~70k on the new Toyota 250 design philosophy.

To be fair, if you can find the 1958 with 4-5k knocked off MSRP, that does provide a better value proposition since it is more so in line with the 250 design philosophy.

But 70k+ for a 250 premium? Nah…

 

[doc5339]

Time to step into a LX 570 or 200 LC

Find a lightly used rust free one (can be many months tracking down a clean one) and the value is there. Way more value than dropping ~70k on the new Toyota 250 design philosophy.

To be fair, if you can find the 1958 with 4-5k knocked off MSRP, that does provide a better value proposition since it is more so in line with the 250 design philosophy.

But 70k+ for a 250 premium? Nah…

Not really feeling the LX 570 or 200-series; I realize this is blasphemy here.

*edit: explanation

*Before a posse gets formed to hang me from the nearest tree, please hear me out.

We pay a great deal of money for these rigs one way or another (expensive MSRP/bolt ons or built not bought). I realize many of the forum members are all about analog, tried and true, and I am fine with that. I am focused on the following:

-Getting my family and dogs across long stretches of road, often thousands of miles to go wheeling over scenic and often moderate-to-high difficulty passes and trails as well as wheeling Uwharrie.
-Adding as little additional weight as possible; minimal mods like sliders, skid plates, maybe a lift and winch. No heavy bumpers, roof top tents, tire carriers etc.
-Excellent clearance with smallest wheel possible, ideally 33" tires. I prefer pizza cutters when possible for contact patch, ability to precisely place my wheels, less weight.
-ADAS such as Adaptive Cruise Control is a must and I also prefer to have great Lane Centering (Auto Steer) not just Lane Keep Assist as these tools greatly reduce fatigue on 800-mile+ driving days and I think they improve highway safety as well.
-Best driving dynamics available for flying brick type SUV.
-Decent fuel economy and range to reduce stops and the need for jerry cans (Rotopax) or larger fuel cell.
-Excellent comfort in terms of ride, seating, ergonomics, and NVH.
-Capability in terms of excellent brake torque traction control and/or center, rear, front locking differentials.
-Utility, good cargo space and payload.
-360 Camera System with very good resolution and functionality for parking lots and off roading.
-Specialness, essentially the intangibles like engine sound, door thunk, solid feel, perceived quality.

I appreciate the 200-series/LX 570 greatly, though I do not venerate it as many do. Way overpriced for what one gets and old trucks still always require more work, scheduled maintenance if nothing else. If they were more reasonably priced for their vintage, I might consider one; really hate that pesky third row in so many.

Gonna do my best to struggle on with the LC 250 Prado (apologies for sounding so boujee as I am in a privileged position to own one), hopefully not lose too much value and then probably purchase another L663 Defender 110 (used); this time maybe a V8 hopefully the Carpathian Edition; hopefully CPO Defender 110 V8's will be below $80k by the time I am buying. I realize the P300 2.0-liter turbo is better for my application, however, I really love the JLR 5.0-liter Supercharged V8 and am familiar with its qwerks and features.

The Defender 110 has the clearance with its air suspension (yeah I know about air suspension reliability etc), can fit 33" tires, rides better, has excellent brake torque traction control and automatic center and rear locking differentials (rear is optional). It has the ability to drop to access height to clear obstacles off road and in parking lots as well as excellent driving dynamics (almost no body roll).

I have owned three Land Rovers (L322 Range Rover HSE AJ133 5.0-liter NA V8, L663 Defender 110 S P300 2.0-liter turbo I4, L405 Range Rover Supercharged AJ133 5.0-liter Supercharged V8) as well as three Land Cruisers. The biggest issue with Land Rovers is being prepared to repair and/or recover wherever one goes, though I will say reliability seems to improve constantly. The biggest issue with my Land Cruisers has been owning older, rare vehicles with the 40 and 70 series, and putting up with a multitude of compromises with the LC 250 Prado.

I really liked the Braptor with exceptions of NVH, terrible engine note, and in your face design. Never been a G-Wagon fan though the 2013-2015 G550 checks many boxes for me, however, its height, aftermarket parts, and uber boujee reputation turned me off. I did not want to go back to an L663, while I never had any issues with my 2020 Defender 110 S, a Land Rover owner is always waiting for an issue to pop up. I guess I would rather wait for and repair issues than feel I made compromises in so many other ways with the Land Cruiser 250.

 

[MRego]

Not really feeling the LX 570 or 200-seires; I realize this is blasphemy here.

*edit: explanation

*Before a posse gets formed to hang me from the nearest tree, please hear me out.

We pay a great deal of money for these rigs one way or another (expensive MSRP/bolt ons or built not bought). I realize many of the forum members are all about analog, tried and true, and I am fine with that. I am focused on the following:

-Getting my family and dogs across long stretches of road, often thousands of miles to go wheeling over scenic and often moderate-to-high difficulty passes and trails as well as wheeling Uwharrie.
-Adding as little additional weight as possible; minimal mods like sliders, skid plates, maybe a lift and winch. No heavy bumpers, roof top tents, tire carriers etc.
-Excellent clearance with smallest wheel possible, ideally 33" tires. I prefer pizza cutters when possible for contact patch, ability to precisely place my wheels, less weight.
-ADAS such as Adaptive Cruise Control is a must and I also prefer to have great Lane Centering (Auto Steer) not just Lane Keep Assist as these tools greatly reduce fatigue on 800-mile+ driving days and I think they improve highway safety as well.
-Best driving dynamics available for flying brick type SUV.
-Decent fuel economy and range to reduce stops and the need for jerry cans (Rotopax) or larger fuel cell.
-Excellent comfort in terms of ride, seating, ergonomics, and NVH.
-Capability in terms of excellent brake torque traction control and/or center, rear, front locking differentials.
-Utility, good cargo space and payload.
-360 Camera System with very good resolution and functionality for parking lots and off roading.
-Specialness, essentially the intangibles like engine sound, door thunk, solid feel, perceived quality.

I appreciate the 200-series/LX 570 greatly, though I do not venerate it as many do. Way overpriced for what one gets and old trucks still always require more work, scheduled maintenance if nothing else. If they were more reasonably priced for their vintage, I might consider one; really hate that pesky third row in so many.

Gonna do my best to struggle on with the LC 250 Prado (apologies for sounding so boujee as I am in a privileged position to own one), hopefully not lose too much value and then probably purchase another L663 Defender 110 (used); this time maybe a V8 hopefully the Carpathian Edition; hopefully CPO Defender 110 V8's will be below $80k by the time I am buying. I realize the P300 2.0-liter turbo is better for my application, however, I really love the JLR 5.0-liter Supercharged V8 and am familiar with its qwerks and features.

The Defender 110 has the clearance with its air suspension (yeah I know about air suspension reliability etc), can fit 33" tires, rides better, has excellent brake torque traction control and automatic center and rear locking differentials (rear is optional). It has the ability to drop to access height to clear obstacles off road and in parking lots as well as excellent driving dynamics (almost no body roll).

I have owned three Land Rovers (L322 Range Rover HSE AJ133 5.0-liter NA V8, L663 Defender 110 S P300 2.0-liter turbo I4, L405 Range Rover Supercharged AJ133 5.0-liter Supercharged V8) as well as three Land Cruisers. The biggest issue with Land Rovers is being prepared to repair and/or recover wherever one goes, though I will say reliability seems to improve constantly. The biggest issue with my Land Cruisers has been owning older, rare vehicles with the 40 and 70 series, and putting up with a multitude of compromises with the LC 250 Prado.

I really liked the Braptor with exceptions of NVH, terrible engine note, and in your face design. Never been a G-Wagon fan though the 2013-2015 G550 checks many boxes for me, however, its height, aftermarket parts, and uber boujee reputation turned me off. I did not want to go back to an L663, while I never had any issues with my 2020 Defender 110 S, a Land Rover owner is always waiting for an issue to pop up. I guess I would rather wait for and repair issues than feel I made compromises in so many other ways with the Land Cruiser 250.

Doesn't look like the 250 Prado is the car for you. You seem conformed to Land Rover's expected reliability issues. I saw that a lot when owned my Defender and was in the LR Forums. "The quirks gremlins and so on with LRs are part of the experience" they used to say there. It was not for me and I got tired of it. If I were you and assuming you have the $$, I would give a shot at the LX600 or 700. Except for the stupid nose, it solves most of your requirements/gripes and you get rid of the "waiting the other shoe to drop" sensation with the LR. Good luck.

 

[doc5339]

Doesn't look like the 250 Prado is the car for you. You seem conformed to Land Rover's expected reliability issues. I saw that a lot when owned my Defender and was in the LR Forums. "The quirks gremlins and so on with LRs are part of the experience" they used to say there. It was not for me and I got tired of it. If I were you and assuming you have the $$, I would give a shot at the LX600 or 700. Except for the stupid nose, it solves most of your requirements/gripes and you get rid of the "waiting the other shoe to drop" sensation with the LR. Good luck.

Good, relatively accurate assessment. I did try the LX600 and was thoroughly unimpressed with the power delivery, ride, and design. There is something very janky about Lexus I just cannot put my finger on.

Have tried several times to get into Lexus products like the CT200h, LX570, LX600 and GX460; new and secondary markets, the prices are ridiculous IMHO. Lexus (Toyota) technology always appears a decade behind the rest of the market. The current Toyota and Lexus generations represent a massive step forward as it relates to performance and technology; still feels maybe just under a decade behind the rest of the market to me.

I have purchased new and used Jaguar and Land Rover products and generally totally see and feel the value from the seat comfort, NVH, to the technology implementation, ride quality, capabilities, and power delivery. I have owned and currently own non-JLR brands (Audi, Rivian, Porsche, GMC, Polestar) which I have been and am very happy with. I guess I just can't be happy knowing I will probably make it to my destination and back with no issues albeit in a pretty boring ride.

I have never been stranded by a JLR product though I am always prepared for it. My 1976 FJ40 with Chevy 350 ci Small Block V8 did leave us stranded a couple times but that was GM's fault as well as a failing starter. I wish I could just accept the multitude of small issues in my LC 250 Prado, though a mentor of mine used to say "Have you ever been bitten by an elephant? How many times have you been bitten by mosquitoes?" to make the point the little things are very important.

I could probably save a ton of money on cars if I just spent it on psychotherapy.

 

[rexington14]

I appreciate the 200-series/LX 570 greatly, though I do not venerate it as many do. Way overpriced for what one gets and old trucks still always require more work, scheduled maintenance if nothing else. If they were more reasonably priced for their vintage, I might consider one;

Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one. Great vehicles - but IMO the used LC200 market is in no mans land right now.

The most recent model years are almost all entirely out of warranty, yet commanding a fortune with sellers trying to cash out handsomely on the scarcity and social media hysteria which has interrupted the normal depreciation cycle. (last V8! last real LC! 250 sucks!). Wannabe LC200 buyers seem more than willing to fall for and overspend right into it.

And the older model years? Well, the 200s have proven to have a few more reliability "issues" than their Land Cruiser predecessors including higher repair costs, making the purchase of an older / higher mileage 200 relatively more questionable over the long term. Whereas in the past getting into a 15+ year old 150-200k+ mile Land Cruiser was considered a sweet spot for value, I'm not as convinced that's the case with the 200.

 

[MRego]

Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one. Great vehicles - but IMO the used LC200 market is in no mans land right now.

The most recent model years are almost all entirely out of warranty, yet commanding a fortune with sellers trying to cash out handsomely on the scarcity and social media hysteria which has interrupted the normal depreciation cycle. (last V8! last real LC! 250 sucks!). Wannabe LC200 buyers seem more than willing to fall for and overspend right into it.

And the older model years? Well, the 200s have proven to have a few more reliability "issues" than their Land Cruiser predecessors including higher repair costs, making the purchase of an older / higher mileage 200 relatively more questionable over the long term. Whereas in the past getting into a 15+ year old 150-200k+ mile Land Cruiser was considered a sweet spot for value, I'm not as convinced that's the case with the 200.

To me, it is just a matter of preference. What is happening is a natural consequence of Toyota cutting our balls and not bringing the 300 stateside. Instead, by offering now only the Prado, people that actually like (some even venerate) the heavy-duty characteristics of the 200 are now running to buy one while they can. Sellers of 200s obviously see the trend and raise asking prices. Of course, the newer, the more expensive. Those eager buyers, left with no option, pay and the market goes on and on.

Now, some might say "if Toyota had brought the 300, people would still say it is not the V8 anymore, it is not as heavy-duty, etc, etc." They might be right, but the gap would be much less than the abyss between the 200 and the 250Prado and the 200s prices would not be soaring as much.