treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
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- #261
;p
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I might have killed my Orion
- Thread starter treerootCO
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;p
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
- Thread starter
- #262
The only bits you see in the jar are bubbles from me shaking up the 90 weight. My conclusion is that the replacement gear sent from Orion will work 100% as a direct replacement (OEM tranny with OEM transfercase). Because the splines on the new input gear are 1/4" less than the OEM, it will not work when bolting the Orion to an SM465 or SM420. These transmissions rely on the input gear splines to contact the flares of the output shaft. Without this contact, the new input gear can walk toward the transmission and machine out the inside of the case. This has never been an issue with other SM420/SM465 swaps because the OEM input gear has enough splines to prevent the gear from walking. On page 8 you can see the washers I added to prevent this from happening and the above pics are the results of that test. There is almost no metal in the oil and most likely, the little bit left is leftover from the earlier mess.
I am still working on the neutral issue...
I am still working on the neutral issue...
Of course I want to see your oil Mike!!
Even though we have figured out where all the metal was being generated from....
POST UP!
Recieved word back from Randy at AA on how much end play they shoot for in the cases they assemble with regaurds to the high speed and low speed gears on the mainshaft. .008-.012", instead of the stock +.025" that Toyota has from the factory...
Trying to get clear pictures of these thrusts washers seems to be a daunting task for the digital camera for some reason...I will try again Tuesday.
-Steve
Even though we have figured out where all the metal was being generated from....
POST UP!
Recieved word back from Randy at AA on how much end play they shoot for in the cases they assemble with regaurds to the high speed and low speed gears on the mainshaft. .008-.012", instead of the stock +.025" that Toyota has from the factory...
Trying to get clear pictures of these thrusts washers seems to be a daunting task for the digital camera for some reason...I will try again Tuesday.
-Steve
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
- Thread starter
- #264
I edited the posts above with the pics.
Now that's some sexy 90weight.
Now that's some sexy 90weight.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
- Thread starter
- #266
me too
Josie'sLandCruiser
Stop calling it a "FJ."
Hi All:
Hey "Poser," thanks for all the info you've posted in this thread, and research you've done on the topic! I know my buds Max and Todd are following developments!
Regards,
Alan
Seattle
Hey "Poser," thanks for all the info you've posted in this thread, and research you've done on the topic! I know my buds Max and Todd are following developments!
Regards,
Alan
Seattle
treerootCO said:
You are 100% sure on this? I want an Orion but I have been waiting to see what you guys figured out. My drivetrain is OEM.
After hearing back from Randy at AA, they would like .008-.012 clearance between the high speed gear and thrust washer, so I have had some Toyota thrust washers cut with a .010 step in them....The .009 gauge fit, but was really tight, the .008 fit nice. Going to install these on both ends of the shaft, between the high speed and low speed gears and bearings....
Hope to have Ed's built shortly, and will have another one tore down and replaced soon.
Hopefully this will clear up what I was talking about earlier.
-Steve
Hope to have Ed's built shortly, and will have another one tore down and replaced soon.
Hopefully this will clear up what I was talking about earlier.
-Steve
i'm waiting on AA to call me back, but do you put the stepped thrust washer in there to get more play or less??? i have .022 play between both of my washers. wouldn't a stepped washer give me more play? are these washers supposed to be thicker than stock toyota?
poser, i keep re-reading your posts aabout the stepped washer and i just don't get it.
maybe i'm just a tard and my orion is just supposed to pop out of gear.
maybe i'm just a tard and my orion is just supposed to pop out of gear.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
- Thread starter
- #273
Just to clarify if anyone is confused after reading this entire thread. I have had two issues with my Orion:
- More metal in the oil than normal break in (this was only caused by running a non OEM transmission. The fix was to add a spacer and is documented on about page 7-8)
- Pops into neutral from 4 low (I have done everything mentioned in the thread except the stepped spacer Poser mentions a page back.)
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yes, i'm a tard. broke mine back down, and i understand. my washers are getting machined right now.
sorry for bringing this thread back up.
sorry for bringing this thread back up.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
- Thread starter
- #275
I wasn't implying that you were confused. The issue of the neutral problems were surfacing again so I figured I should update my thread. I had two issues when most people only have the neutral problem.
Yo , poser and tree , was talking with some people at Surf n Turf and they were aware of the spacer or thrust washer issue to keep gears from bumping shift collar but they mentioned that in some cases the movement of the high and low gear was working the bushing loose and causing seizure , anyone experienced this ? mine still running well . I ran it in the dunes but not real hard. I did uphill , downhill , highspeed all in 4 hi with no problems. fingers are crossed.
I am not aware of anyone that has siezed a case, other than me, and that was from too much pre-load on the mainshaft bearings...instructions in the Orion kits and on their site have been fixed since...
Randy at AA has been very open and forthcoming with information to me about things going on with this case. In the end, all I want is to help figure this issue out, and make it a non-factor. I believe that using a stepped thust washer, making it so that you have between .008" and .013" clearance will go a long way towards solving this.
I have Ed Long's Orion set up, and it seems to be fine on the bench. He will get it Thursday night when I pass through on the way to Clayton. I am not sure what his timeframe is for installing and operating all this, but I do have another customers truck at the shop who has a 465 in front of the Orion with the adapter from Brian. I am going to tear this one down, and install the stepped washers on the mainshaft. I will then be able to take this truck out and test the set up. This is not going to happen in November. Hopefully, the first week or so of December.
One thing that I have also found is that the older shift collars were thicker(wider), by .050 or so, compared to the new ones...
Good luck!
-Steve
Randy at AA has been very open and forthcoming with information to me about things going on with this case. In the end, all I want is to help figure this issue out, and make it a non-factor. I believe that using a stepped thust washer, making it so that you have between .008" and .013" clearance will go a long way towards solving this.
I have Ed Long's Orion set up, and it seems to be fine on the bench. He will get it Thursday night when I pass through on the way to Clayton. I am not sure what his timeframe is for installing and operating all this, but I do have another customers truck at the shop who has a 465 in front of the Orion with the adapter from Brian. I am going to tear this one down, and install the stepped washers on the mainshaft. I will then be able to take this truck out and test the set up. This is not going to happen in November. Hopefully, the first week or so of December.
One thing that I have also found is that the older shift collars were thicker(wider), by .050 or so, compared to the new ones...
Good luck!
-Steve
hey tree, i was just pickin' on myself- it's hard to hurt my feelings 
when i had my orion put together the low speed gear seemed too close to the shift fork. has anyone else been concerned about this?? or is this where the bumping the collar comes from?
when i had my orion put together the low speed gear seemed too close to the shift fork. has anyone else been concerned about this?? or is this where the bumping the collar comes from?
It is going to be close, as the low speed gear is very large, that is why part of the shift fork is machined away...but this does not have anything to do with the case staying in gear or not.
can you clarify older / newer shift collar , like year or maybe the t-case behind 4spd's had thinner collars ? whats the identifying factor ? and , do you think maching the collar down would be able to go enough to eliviate this issue or maybe just using the thinner collars works , maybe , just maybe all the gear poppers are using thicker collars and all sizing and testing was done with thinner collar.......
