i am facing problem with OME lift kit ...

[smookinz]

hello guys ,

i own a 2009 lc 200 equiped with kdss system , i fixed old man emu lift kit , the car now leaning to one side more that the other by 1 inch or less , i took it to the local toyota workshop the did the bleeding to the kdss system and the redjusting or leveling the car ..... still the problem is there , don't know what to do right now


is there a way to delete this s***ty system , i remember there was a guy saudia arabia (middle eastern) , he had the same problem and solved it by canceling the whole thing

help help help

 

[smookinz]

Bump! Anyone?
Right now the thing i wanna know the most is would it be possible to delete the kdss system alltogether?
Wht would be involved- pros and cons etc...
I'd greatly appreciate any help!
Cheers.

 

[Billfish]

Couple of things to check:

1. Bleeding the KDSS system by itself is not sufficient. You will need to ensure it has been re-pressurised correctly. Toyota dealers have a special tool for this procedure.
2. The re-pressurisation must be done while the vehicle sits on the ground. On the hoist causes further problems.
3. I read on another LC forum that LC's with KDSS fitted have a specific OEM spring for right and left to accommodate and correct the inherent lean of the KDSS system. Aftermarket springs often do not account for this difference in required tension.

If the lean tends to correct itself once the car is moving for a while its likely that the KDSS system is the cause of the problem. If it persists may be there is an issue with lift kit. Some guys with after-market suspension and lift upgrades have had the system completely depresserized ----and the car still leans.

Hope this helps. At the end of the day some lean may be unavoidable but I dont think getting rid of the KDSS is a smart move. Good luck. Bill

 

[JBHorne]

Do not remove the KDSS system. It's a fantastic system. If you remove it, you'd have to add sway bars, which would counter act the vehicles offroad prowess.

As for the lean, contact OME as I am not 100 percent certain, but you probably have the suspension installed backwards. If my memory doesn't mistake me, there was a left and a right side. I'd have the shop swap the components (including rear springs) to the other side before I'd tempt KDSS removal.


Try and follow these instructions exactly:

1) Put vehicle on hoist so that all 4 wheels are hanging freely.
2) Open the 2x shutter valves 3 turns exactly.
3) Lower the vehicle onto a level surface, full weight of the vehicle.
4) Rock the vehicle vigorously.
5) Take measurements at this point to verify all four corners are within 1/2" deviation.
6) Tighten the KDSS valves.

If that doesn't work, swap components left-to-right like previously stated and re-follow KDSS procedures.

 

[fvunen]

In the OME catalog it states that KDSS equipped LC200 may exhibit a characteristic lean to the right after fitting longer OME spings. I've read many posts on this subject before fitting OME springs; measured the springs before installing them (only a trivial difference between them, nevertheless installed longer ones on the right), have done all the "tricks" suggested by others on the forum and still have a car with a slight lean.
I admit to not fully understand how KDSS works in detail, initially I had hoped to be able to re-balance the system by opening the valves, straightening out the vehicle and closing the valves again. Idle hope as after driving a few miles you are back to the same old lean again.
I believe that the real solution is changing the back and front actuation arms for slightly longer ones. However these arms appear not easily changed or replaced by some handicraft item.
As suggested by OME's documentation, you'll probably have to live with the slight lean.

 

[JBHorne]

There is no such things as a problem that cannot be fixed. Keep trying...

I have a feeling that who ever torqued your bolts did not do so per Toyota manual while having the vehicle on the ground. How do I know? This can only be done with the wheels on, and some of these bolts are a real bitch to get to while the wheels are on. Most shops would simply torque everything while in the air, but I had a similar problem and was able to correct it. Those poly bushings are like glue once torqued, setting a "default" position for parts. This needs to be done once the vehicle is at resting state obviously, not in the air.

Here's what I would do:

1) Raise the vehicle on a lift and open the KDSS valves.
2) Loosen the following bolts on both sides of the vehicle:
---- a) Front LCA's (both mounts)
---- b) Front UCA's (long bolt)
---- c) Front U-brackets holding the torsion bar for KDSS (2 bolts per bracket)
---- d) Front KDSS connecting rods (2-3 bolts/nuts)
---- e) Top mount for rear LATERAL control rod
---- f) Rear KDSS connecting rods (bolts/nuts)
---- g) Rear lower control rods (both ends)
3) Lower the vehicle on all four wheels.
4) Re-torque all bolts to Toyota spec.
5) Shake vehicle vigorously.
6) Re-tighten KDSS valves.

For a detailed process and all torque settings, see:
GSIC - Global Service Information Center

The manual makes it clear that all bolts need to be torqued in final-resting state. You'd be surprised at how unforgiving those poly bushings are. When torqued, I'm surprised the parts even move!

 

[patrickfinley]

Make sure you get someone at the Toyota dealership that has experience with Land Cruiser and KDSS. Many of the techs in the shops these days are well versed to do fluid changes and that's about it. Most dealerships in the US are lucky if they get 4-5 LC's on the lot in a year, it's a rare bird.

It may be good to ask around the dealership, parts, sales, etc and find out who the guru in the service department might be.

Certainly don't have it shut off.

 

[pagemaster]

is there a way to delete this ****ty system , i remember there was a guy saudia arabia (middle eastern) , he had the same problem and solved it by canceling the whole thing

Sorry to read about your situation.

You could check with GX470 owners as the GX470 has had the KDSS suspension since 2004. Not sure if Prado's were available with it, even though the LC/GX are different, I am sure there is someone who has had a similar experience as yours.

Hope this helps, good luck!

 

[barumbado]

Sorry to read about your situation.

You could check with GX470 owners as the GX470 has had the KDSS suspension since 2004. Not sure if Prado's were available with it, even though the LC/GX are different, I am sure there is someone who has had a similar experience as yours.

Hope this helps, good luck!

Wow you seem like a very nice caring human being.

What year is your GX470 pagemaster?

 

[ZenCruiser]

There is no such things as a problem that cannot be fixed. Keep trying...

I have a feeling that who ever torqued your bolts did not do so per Toyota manual while having the vehicle on the ground. How do I know? This can only be done with the wheels on, and some of these bolts are a real bitch to get to while the wheels are on. Most shops would simply torque everything while in the air, but I had a similar problem and was able to correct it. Those poly bushings are like glue once torqued, setting a "default" position for parts. This needs to be done once the vehicle is at resting state obviously, not in the air.

Here's what I would do:

1. Raise the vehicle on a lift and open the KDSS valves.
2. Loosen the following bolts on both sides of the vehicle:

---- a) Front LCA's (both mounts)
---- b) Front UCA's (long bolt)
---- c) Front U-brackets holding the torsion bar for KDSS (2 bolts per bracket)
---- d) Front KDSS connecting rods (2-3 bolts/nuts)
---- e) Top mount for rear LATERAL control rod
---- f) Rear KDSS connecting rods (bolts/nuts)
---- g) Rear lower control rods (both ends)

1. Lower the vehicle on all four wheels.
2. Re-torque all bolts to Toyota spec.
3. Shake vehicle vigorously.
4. Re-tighten KDSS valves.

For a detailed process and all torque settings, see:
GSIC - Global Service Information Center

The manual makes it clear that all bolts need to be torqued in final-resting state. You'd be surprised at how unforgiving those poly bushings are. When torqued, I'm surprised the parts even move!

Hello JBHorne

Re: 2008 LC200 Leaning to Left Side

I know this is an old thread but I've been faced with this persistent LC200 leaning to the DS (LHS) despite multiple attempts at resetting the KDSS valves. No difference at all after each time.

The problem even persists after installing to Tough Dog suspension with 1-in longer RHS rear spring than LHS with no change.

Your link to the GSIC - Global Service Information Center is not working.

Please share what you know about this issue before I spend some more to swap the longer RHS spring to LHS. Many thanks in advance.

Sincerely.

ZenCruiser

 

[Sedalia]

There are YT videos for this, releasing KDSS and blocking to level. Did you try this? Please report back with results if this doesn't work.

 

[ZenCruiser]

There are YT videos for this, releasing KDSS and blocking to level. Did you try this? Please report back with results if this doesn't work.

I've tried these procedures multiple times with 0 change. I think what JB Horne wrote (quote below) made sense and would like to hear more from him if he's still around.

"I have a feeling that who ever torqued your bolts did not do so per Toyota manual while having the vehicle on the ground. How do I know? This can only be done with the wheels on, and some of these bolts are a real bitch to get to while the wheels are on. Most shops would simply torque everything while in the air, but I had a similar problem and was able to correct it. Those poly bushings are like glue once torqued, setting a "default" position for parts. This needs to be done once the vehicle is at resting state obviously, not in the air."

 

[TeCKis300]

The lean likely has nothing to do with KDSS, unless it was a procedural issue with the install.

Large trucks and SUVs with tall springs often will lean. Search any SUV forum and you'll see the same things going on. Once a lean takes set, the lower side continues to bear more weight. With passing of time, that added weight will further wear that spring exacerbating the issue. It's the nature of the beast.

Trim packers were created for this very reason. You'll find them in an array of sizes. Try a 5 or 10mm trim packer on the rear lower side spring.

 

[Sedalia]

Again, sorry if I missed something already mentioned but, aren't these springs different for the right and left side? I know my last set were. Otherwise, I think @TeCKis300 probably has the final solution.

 

[ZenCruiser]

The lean likely has nothing to do with KDSS, unless it was a procedural issue with the install.

Large trucks and SUVs with tall springs often will lean. Search any SUV forum and you'll see the same things going on. Once a lean takes set, the lower side continues to bear more weight. With passing of time, that added weight will further wear that spring exacerbating the issue. It's the nature of the beast.

Trim packers were created for this very reason. You'll find them in an array of sizes. Try a 5 or 10mm trim packer on the rear lower side spring.

My 08 LC was already leaning prior to the Tough Dog lift and continues to lean after the lift. The left side is about 1 in lower than the right side both before and after lift.

Tough Dog right rear lift spring was about 1 in taller than left rear spring, and so there was no net change after install.

2 weeks later, I installed 2 X 10 mm OME trim spacers (20 mm total) on top of left rear lift TG spring and there seemed to be no change. However, after another 2 weeks of driving, I measured approximately 0.5 in difference this morning.

And so after 20 mm of trim spacers, the difference is still 0.5 in lower on left side.

As a last resort, I will pay to switch the longer TG spring to the leaning side. Hopefully the 1 in taller spring will compensate for the lean. But I'm highly unsure.

 

[dc916cruiser]

+1 on Sedalia's post, when I installed my OME rear springs, they were initially installed on the wrong sides. I had to switch them side-to-side to correct the lean. After I did that, there was still a slight lean. I found a thread/video that talked about parking the truck with a block underneath the rear tire that was higher, then opening/closing the KDSS valves. That finally did the trick. Also, taking the truck out and really flexing the suspension out helped settle the height differences as well. Best of luck to you in figuring this out.

 

[TeCKis300]

+1 on Sedalia's post, when I installed my OME rear springs, they were initially installed on the wrong sides. I had to switch them side-to-side to correct the lean. After I did that, there was still a slight lean. I found a thread/video that talked about parking the truck with a block underneath the rear tire that was higher, then opening/closing the KDSS valves. That finally did the trick. Also, taking the truck out and really flexing the suspension out helped settle the height differences as well. Best of luck to you in figuring this out.

While this strategy may work, it's not something I would recommend in general. KDSS functionally is a hydraulic sway bar. A sway bar shouldn't necessarily be used to impart tension to correct a lean. It should be a neutral suspension element at rest. That's unless the suspension was installed in a fashion that didn't reset KDSS to accommodate a lift.

There's been reports of using the above technique, but over time, KDSS will reset itself to be a neutral element and the lean would have returned.

Note that the gas tank is offset on the passenger side. Perhaps those measuring lean should note gas fill level when measuring? That may account for some of the lean but not all for more aggressive leans.

 

[dc916cruiser]

Good points, along with other things such as drawers and the weight of their contents, what side they are on, tire carriers, jerry cans and the like... Firestone coil-rite bags can also help in these cases.