how to build a toyota, solid axle, rock crawler thread. (2 Viewers)

[missouriman]

time to wake this place back up. share what we have learned. the little things that are really big things, money savers, what really worked and what didn't. I am not really sure WHERE to start. so I will just start.
this is for us poor boy's that can't just send it to the shop and tell them what we want. some mods are expensive, some are worth it and others are not.
Input is welcome, flaming is not.
what have you experienced in building your toy.. and share.
Rock Sliders.. this should be the first on the list. because once you crush that door frame and the door won't open, or close well... that sucks.
buy or make good one's. leave at least 1/4 inch between the slider and the body. it will still hit, dent a bit, but the door will still work.

SPRINGS.
don't go cheap, go alcans, all pro, or better, cheap springs suck. trust me you will save money spending extra money on springs.
LIFT
stay low, cut metal if needed for tires.
BODY
really don't worry to much, only the first big dent hurts.
Gears...
go low with lockers the first time. 5.29's are the gears for toyota axles.
Axles.
the toyota rears are way strong unless you are running over 40 inch tires and a v8 motor, and are heavy on the skinny peddle.
Brakes.
you life depends on these, keep your brakes adjusted, working, ebrakes.. you can buy or use the newer drum pivot with your older, 79 to ?? e brake levers. the ones that suck have the steel sleeve mounted in a pot metal mount.
there is alot of talk of the fj40 disk and the ifs calipers. for the 85 trucks. don't waste your time or money. just replace the master cylinder with the later 1 inch master and brake booster, first... the other requires that you carry too many extra parts.
FRONT AXLE,
alot of stuff here.
cross over.. I run sky's and like it. the tie rods are way heavy, buy extra tie rod ends.
birfields are good up to 33 inch tires with respect.
above 33 inch tires you will break birfields. the next and really only step are the 30 spline longs with the hub gear that they sell, other wise the warranty is void if you strip the spines on the end of the longs as the birfield didn't fail.
right now that adds about 180 bucks to the up grade.
a 8 inch pipe cap cut in the yin yan pattern is a great diff protector and you get two of them for about 30 bucks and some torch work.

diff plug.. and if you are a rock crawler, get the low profile and weld it in.
Steering,, you need cross over. the 85 push pull is ok with up to 3 inches of lift but even then when the front tire on the drivers side drops. you will not be able to turn left. just how the push pull steering works. the J arm is a weak link and will or can break in this situation. then you are hosed... because you have to change the arm and you are most likely in a really bad place to do that...
cross over steering you really do need to plate the frame where the box mounts. you will want to mount the box high and forward. the frame is to thin to take the forces that you will be putting to it.. trust me, mine broke.

hydro assist is not hard and this is a good time to do it..
surplus center has everything. if there is a big interest I can post up the part numbers.. I did it for my wife, no more did the steering wheel tear out of her hands. and she could turn in places that she could not before, and do it with one hand.
it runs around 200.00 maybe 250.00 after you buy the taps, cooler stuff like that. it was so awesome I put it on my truck also and just love it.

TRANSFER CASE MOUNT.
all pro, front range, all offer good transfer case mounts.. but I went with bud built and had not been disappointed. the others leave the transfer case open to the rocks. we have beat the crap out of the bud built ones and it protects the transfer. trust me, I have dropped my truck onto the bud built so hard my teeth hurt.. but no damage to the truck. I have had people turn and look.. (with that look)... lol.. it is awesome,, tell bud I sent ya.

recovery..
winch and bumper..
these will get you through about anything.. I could not find any bumper that I liked so I made one.. we are running a warn 8000 and a gorilla 8000 with in cab controls and love them.. a good winch is way awesome when you need them. I had a mile marker and burned up the motor.
the motor was more then the winch.. ok,, 50 bucks less... I didn't fix it.

bumpers, well they must hold your winch, I wanted mine to look nice. but could not find any that were less then 1200.00..!!!!!
to me they all were to thick, stuck out to far, or were just made of tube.. I know that some like tube bumpers.. I didn't..
so I figured this out and made this.

tucked in there pretty nice.
Winch..
depends on the winch, but dual in cab, and bumper controls are really nice, and cheap if you buy two switches and mount the controller up under the hood. the not cheap part are the wires.. copper prices. that alone was 80 bucks.
bobbing the bed, it is easy when you just do it.. I have a write up on it if you are interested in increasing your departure angle. saws all, some screws. a welder.
yeh,, the welder I have is a Hobart 180, flux wire. best, cheapest, do what I want in the drive way welder that I could figure out at the time.
transfer case,
you can do duals, single with marlins 4.7's, inch worm.. just print out and follow the instructions TO THE LETTER.
drive shafts.
I bought the UBBER long travel slip joint for my truck 200.00 had a drive line shop make the drive shaft. 200.00 more. last all of one trail..
I made a square one for the wifes. 45.00 and about 3 hours time. I bet 14 inches of slip. we only really use 4x4 on the trail. so no problem with vibs.. she even drove it on the road with it locked in and said there were no problems.. so you can make your own with hitch tube and a welder for about 45 bucks. I made her rear drive shaft out of schedule 40 pipe.. that is about 1/4 inch thick. it vibrates. so we only drive 55 to 60 on the road, it is not that bad. so once and a while we will hit the high way for 75 mph driving. she has about 2000 miles on it like that and so far the seals are holding up.
She has (barber polled it) walked the truck side ways on it, and it is still holding up just fine. cost... about 60 bucks and the stock drive shaft.
Ok so here is the start,, questions, input are welcome..

 

[missouriman]

moving the front axle forward.
there are several things.
the first is the drive shaft, it will have to be longer.
the shock mounts will take about 3 inches before you have a problem.
the stock axle on the pass side has the extra hole. you just have to drill out the drivers side mount this will move it about 1 and 3/8 inches forward.
cross over with out bump stops will still hit your oil pan. so you will need to make some. when measureing remember that the front axle moves backwards when compressing. you will need these with your lift. you DO NOT want to have a hole in the oil pan. and you are trying to stay as low as possible.
flex your truck after moving the axle forward and get out the tape measure. mark on the frame where you are going to put in the bump stop.
leave an extra 1/4 to 1/2 inch compression of the rubber part of the stop.
now that you have your bump stops in place, put a tie wrap on your shock. go flex it up again or go wheeling. now you can often move your shock mount down. you can use or flip the rubber mounts. you are looking for the down travel.
for toyota's don't go for much more then 14 inches on the shocks with leaf springs.
reason for moving axle forward, and bump stops.

reason for down travel...

you can see that the tire is almost in front of the bumper. these are cheap 12 inch shocks.
I droped the bump stops 2.5 inchs and still put a dent in my oil pan from the cross over steering.

 

[missouriman]

Tires.
it is all about side wall strength. some flex really well but the side wall is easy to cut, water makes this much worse.
unless you have the pockets for the crawlers, the next and I think they are still the best are the swamper sx. steel belted. mud, rocks, snow, sand, they are awesome. it helps to cut the big lugs in half. there are many write ups on how to cut them. but remember it is a balance on traction and how long you want them to last. I would not recommend them for a daily driver as the very nature of the beast they wear fairly fast, they also have a memory. if you leave your truck sit for a few weeks the flat spots are ugly when driving. it only takes about 5 miles for that to go away. but you sure don't want an open coffee cup in the holder!!.
I don't have bead locks and have not lost a bead even down to 5 psi. 8 inch wide rim with 12.5 inch tire mounted on it.
so that a side I think the sx's are the tire for toys.
rims, I have 2 inch back spaced rims and I think they are the ones that you want. my 36 inch swampers just touch the springs at full turn.
as we all like to air down at the trail head. I looked at many things. pulling the valve core... well that sucker shot over my shoulder and was gone. thank goodness for the one in the spare tire. using the screw on adjusters. well I am chatting as the thing let all the air out...
I wanted to air down fast. and I wanted to be able to measure the pressure at the same time.
so I came up with this. they are air compressor drain valves, I mount them on the other side of the rim from the valve stem. they are 1/4 inch NPT threads.
you can get them at Lowe's for about a buck each. 30 psi to 5 in about 30 seconds with 36's. so you have your gauge on the valve stem and open this valve and there you go.. I have a cheap pressure gage 30 to 0 psi, mounted to a filler fitting, to measure the pressure as it go's down

I don't know how many times at the trail head I have had folks come up and ask how I aired down so fast. then copy me.
I came up with this many years ago, posted it up and some guy copied my and posted it on pirate. so now it was his idea. he didn't grab the glory.. just how things went.

edge of rim peal back...
built them but have not tried them yet. With a 36 inch swamper, how out of balance can they be?
not the best example, usually the whole lip is twisted back into the tire.

 

[missouriman]

Bed bob..
there are so many ways to do it, there are alot of good posts out there.
here is how I did it...
first figure out how short you want to go and mark it.
it looks dumb but do it.

once you get your measurements from the out side... and remember to look under the truck you have to at least leave the spring mounts to the frame.. for leaf sprung trucks.
drill a small hole and transfer the lines to the inside of the bed.

use tape to get the line straight, but then us a marker and pull the tape off.
saws all and tape makes a mess.
choose your weapon of choice, I used a saws all.

measure, measure measure.. then go for it.. your first cut.
make sure all wires are out of the way.

clean up the next 4 to 8 inches because you will be cutting this into mounting strips, about 2 inches wide.
now look back at how weird it looks

I prepped the frame for the rear 3.5 inch tube bumper.

clean up the next 4 to 6 inches of steel to cut into strips.

the strips that you cut and saved above.

line them up and screw them down, this took about 50 small sheet metal screws.

you have to leave a small area at the bottom of the box for the tail light part to slide in.. the corners that is.

cut out this part for fitment over the frame.

now the tail light part up over the bottom part and out side the bed sides.

this is where you will see why you clean up and cut the metal into 2 running strips. or maybe you want 3.. heck you are cutting out over 10 inches of bed. only takes a few minutes to cut extra strips.

drill your holes to snug the joints as you screw them in.

not bad,, bed looks ok,, but front fender cut sucks. more saws all.

this is the rear bumper that I came up with.. I think it was 3.5 in pipe. I could just make a fist inside of it.
I wrapped the upper and lower frame metal that I left earlier on around it and welded.

re cut the front fenders to look better.

I measured the fenders before I cut them to weld a little piece of pipe. the pipe had a nut welded on the inside of it.. I welded this to the cab. I hope the pictures make sence of that.

next post is painting the truck..... My wifes truck and her pink camo that she wanted.... ( some of you know the story behind this, there for a while I gave her what ever she wanted, thank you all for being there for me and her.) those of you that don't know it was a tough time. And I still give to her what ever she wants...she knows this and doesn't abuse it, she knows that I am there for her, and you guys too.... really,,, she wanted to know what you guys said, what you were posting ... (thanks people.).

 

[missouriman]

paint, this is spray can... if you don't like it don't try it.. don't comment.

, my wife showed me that with the off road trucks it doesn't matter.
she wanted hers to be FUN and WOMEN. she wanted all the boys to know that she a girl just whopped their butts on a trail.
uh,, me I plan on 3 or 4 shades of blue..
but here is hers, ace hard ware, wal mart, 4 or 5 shades that she picked out.
the first step is to remove, tail lights, head lights, blinkers, running lights, anything that is easy to remove that you don't want painted.
the next step is to tape up everything else that you don't want painted.
take your time, this is supposed to be fun.... go with the 1/2 inch painters tape.. then follow with the 3/4 inch painters tape.. the blue stuff.
new papers for tires and running boards.. bumpers.. you can shove the little 1/4 inch rope that various places sell under the rubber parts of windows and such.
oh,,, wet sand everything... makes a big difference on how long this lasts.
now that the tapeing is over..... ugggggggggggggggggggg.
so now spray door jams, hood, fender edges with the primary color..
IT DON'T MATTER,, WHAT EVER COLOR OR CAMO YOU ARE GOING FOR....
DO something like this.. door frame, hood edges, tail gait..

then turn the love of you life loose with 20 to 30 some cans of spray paint of her choice. It was really fun to watch.. pretty awesome, all I really did was to wet sand it and let her go...

yeh,,, she is happy with it..
more to come.. grin.

lol... the final touch.. just to let guys know they just got their but whooped by a girl..

butter flies... yep.. big time..

it is good, she is having fun.. and that is all that matters.
so what do you think? pretty wild huh?

 

[missouriman]

springs and mounts.
I am running all cans.. they are pretty awsome.
for my wife I went with the all pro's they look the same in every way.
I went with the 3.5 inch all pros. they have settled to about 3 inches.
you have to move the forward mount 6 inches.
I looked every where around here for the 18mm or the 11/16th bolts.
none to be had a a fair price so I went with 3/4 inch. over kill I know but they were cheaper.
you do not want to beat the bolt through the bushing so, using a 3/4 inch piece of rebar I had laying around I heated it to HOT. then pushed the bushings over it.
I have had no luck with grease staying in the bushings so I used john deere chain lube. stuff is awsome.
I made my own shackles and frame mounts. bumb stops. I did not use bump stops in the rear, I figure it is to light and if something hits. well it is not like the oil pan.

I just layed the steel down to the stock shackle and beat it untill I had the curved part right.
I also welded (bolt stops in) to make the bolt turn in the bushing vs against the narrow shackle. this has really kept the nuts from walking loose.

rear

I have the expensive braided long steel lines on my wifes I just moved the hard line bracket to the side of the frame, She has more movement lenth available then I do.. and uses STOCK brake lines.

at full but not twisted droop.

adjustable rear proportioning valve mount. I moved it up two holes from here after a test drive. now it is great.

to mount the springs I ordered all new 9/16ths u bolts with the extra long barrel nuts.
there are two lenths. I will have to look it up if there is an interest.
I cut the extra lenth off with a sawsall.
oh... the front shoulder mounted bolts I re used. I got the old one's out by welding a large nut on the outer part of the bolt to give me something real to crank on with a wrench.. this heat from the welding was a huge help.
also cut out part of the cab mount behind the front shackles. they will hit.
front bump stops.

 

[missouriman]

drive shafts.
as stated above I spent alot of money on the long travel joint, having the drive shaft made.
then on the first run, don't even know what I hit, I bent it at the joint..
so much for that 400 bucks.
or the cost of a winch, two swampers.. uggggggg.
so. the wife's truck I went with the receiver hitch tube front drive line and replaced the very thin skined rear drive shaft with schedual 40 pipe.. it is about 1/4 inch thick.
rear drive lin is out of balance. we only run the trucks along at about 60 mph.
but she has walked the truck side ways on the drive shaft with out any damage at this time.!!
stock left, 40 on the right.
Yes it LOOKS like the old one will fit down the inside, but it won't..

cut the end off

chisle the skin off of it.

grind the flash weld out of the inside of the pipe. put the joint in and weld it up.

front drive line.
cut the square tube to lenth.
used the small square tube on one end to center the larger tube.
make sure that you line up the ears of the u joint to the flats of the square tube so you can phase the drive shaft later.
I also used three beads of brass weld to make the shaft tighter, or it will rattle bad..
cut a bit off the slip joint. you will not be using any of it!! but leave enough to center and weld.

it will fit right into the end of the tube.

cut the constant velocity end off and weld a 1/2 inch peice of the smaller tube onto it, center this as best you can and weld it on the INSIDE.
then weld the larger tube to the out side. I used small washers to make it slide on there tight and centered.

line it up square not like in the picture. that is not how I welded it on..

the brass beads..

 

[missouriman]

jacking and support 101........

oh yeh,, gravel drive.. jack stands don't work, please note the wide stance piramid of treated 4x4s.

do NOT EVER USE in a dirt or gravel drive
jack stands
the floor jack.
cement blocks.
tree stumps, (they can split).
what ever you do use it must support the truck if it rains. (ground gets soft).
it must take wind and weather.
it must support a whole house. you sure don't want the truck to fall on you.
all of these drive way mods the truck is supported, has been pushed on, there are extra's that are not in the pictures, like putting the tires under the truck. but not as the support, just the catcher.

even on cement, the floor jack is not a good support.
my buddy was trying to get a bolt loose. tried everything then got a 6 foot bar. he was not under the truck at the time. he (big guy) sort of jumped on the end of it and the welds on the floor jack gave up the ghost and dumped the truck onto the floor. (big guy) there was not room for him under the truck after it fell. He told me how sick he felt that he had just been under there jerking around on the breaker bar.
I know that it is silly of me. but in California, after the 89 earth quake I could not get under a truck unless there was my pyramid of wood supporting it. I could not trust jack stands, because I could easy push the truck over on them. ok, not easy but could still do it.
my best friend in Sacramento laughed at me. untill we were working in his drive and one hit. the truck fell over. we went and bought 10 4x4s and cut them up. that was 15 years ago and as far as I know he is still using them.
as my truck has gotten taller I have gone to a mix of 8x8's and 4x4's.
most of this comes from a story I can tell..
when I was a kid I had a 70 road runner that I blew the clutch in.
I had the transmission out and was bolting up the fly wheel. I don't remember why but I also had the wheel off on the drivers side.
I had it supported by a hydraulic jack under the frame. we lived in the middle of no where. the car fell on me. the frame was just above my hips. I had turned my head to the rear of the car when the wrench slipped.
now this hurt, way bad. but I could breath. but I could not turn my head.
I yelled and yelled for all the good it would do.... then after the panic, I got to work. I could not see the jack, my head was turned the other way. I did get ahold of it and the handle. I released it and mashed it all the way back down against my hip. but I could not get it set up right against anything to jack the car back up.
I felt around some more and felt a screw driver. so with my head trapped, shoulders ect. I started digging a hole in the compacted gravel drive.
when I finally got the hole dug and the jack wedged in under the front A frame.. after a lot of digging prying cramping and scooping... I about cried when I found the hole was not big enough to use the jack's handle, I could not pump it...... so I kept digging.. scooping, I could not breath very well.. and my insides hurt like I was going to die... I did get the hole dug. I did get that car off of me, as you know since I am typing this all in...
amazingly I was not really hurt. my parents would have junked the car and killed me for doing that. I got out with some scrapes, some major bruises. I was lucky that it didn't just crush me when it fell. I didn't even tell my parents.
It was awful, it has been some 30 years now and I can still close my eyes, smell the blood and the under coating of the car. I remember the cramps, the digging, the over whelming sadness that I felt when the jack handle would not work in the hole I dug.

so.. don't let the damnnnnn thing fall on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

 

[missouriman]

THANKS I thought that it was time to dig this back up again.

wife now has dual cases. stock front, 4.7 rear, 5.29 gears. welded rear and Detroit lock in the front, twin sticked rear. 36 inch tires. she loves it.

she loves to read this stuff.

most look down on it when she first pulls up to the run.
then about half way down the run they are now asking questions and looking under it.

(what transfer case are you running?)
duals with 4.7's in the rear.
(how do you go so slow with out burning up the clutch?)
oh I have 223 to one crawl ratio.

(WHAT, HOW, UMM).

(ARE those stock Toyota axle's?)

yes but I have the longs 30 spline and the longs lock out gears.

about this time they are looking at her 4 shifters, the skid plates.

she just grins from ear to ear when they are asking questions. And she answers them honestly.. (still grinning).
it is aw some to see her doing so well with all the medical stuff we have been through. Her truck beats mine hands down for now. I have stock dual cases and she has the 4.7 rear. huge difference.

I want to thank every one that has been there for us. as I said before she just loves reading your feed back.

any one else that has the cheap tricks please share. I just turned 46 and am still learning. I have been wheeling Toyota's for over 30 years now.
no kidding, hands down other then towing and speed, they whoop butt for wheeling.
the lack of power more than makes up for the lack of broken parts.
Once you go duals. you have to be careful. in the case of my wifes truck. if you wedge a tire. you can really break a lot of stuff. the weak link right now is the ring and pinion. I have broken 2. one set up bad, one they didn't tighten up one bolt on the Carrier.
found a shop that the set up is free, it they do the set up. 150.00 , compared to the others at 110.00 I just have to buy the gears.

anyways any one have anything to add?
she loves hearing your guys and gals in put. still not that many women out there with their own rigs....
but I think a huge part of my wife's balls are she doesn't have to fix it.

cute

cuter.. lol

 

[the truck doctor]

Great start missouriman! I refered to your writeup for my front driveshaft.

 

[KY854RUN]

My 7 year old daughter loves your wife's truck. She is into pink.

 

[missouriman]

Great start missouriman! I refered to your writeup for my front driveshaft.

thanks, any pictrues or input on how you did it?
did my instructions really help?

My 7 year old daughter loves your wife's truck. She is into pink.

yeh kids love her truck, there are a lot of kids that wave so hard you would think thier armes would come off.

I get flipped off by the snow plow, they roll down thier windows and wave at her!!! good looking chick in a truck vs me I guess!!

the really funny part is the pink is so wrong, when you look under it........
Jason Paule spotting my wife. guess they grew up together.

 

[saltrig]

Hey man, butterfly decals are bad ass. Rent the 1972 movie "Papillon" with Steve McQueen. You'll see what I mean. Talk about perseverence. A fitting emblem for your wife and her rig. I love it.

 

[missouriman]

Hey man, butterfly decals are bad ass. Rent the 1972 movie "Papillon" with Steve McQueen. You'll see what I mean. Talk about perseverence. A fitting emblem for your wife and her rig. I love it.

huh,, looked it over, didn't see it...

 

[missouriman]

so come on guys and gals.

what have you done on your builds that worked out really well?

edit,, ps. please notice that there is not one picture of any work being done in a garage, or even a cement drive way. all of this was done in a gravel drive.
no shop, no fancy tools.

that is important to me in this thread.
thanks.

 

[missouriman]

I am going to give this a bump.
I would like to know if I have helped anyone out.
I would like to know if you have enjoyed the stories.
I would like to know if you would like me to keep posting up, build, runs. stuff like that.

 

[toyminator]

The pink made me wanna puke........then the butterflies did! lol

 

[KY854RUN]

Hi Missouriman,

I like your thread and build. Everyone has different ideas on what is best and the more information that is out there, the better. This helps all of us build better trucks. So, keep posting build info, runs and stuff. That way we all can learn from other's experiences.

 

[missouriman]

The pink made me wanna puke........then the butterflies did! lol

I am going to take that as a joke..
we get that a lot at the start of the run. but her toy is really well built, longs, marlin crawler gears, twin shift, stock front and 4.7 rear, hydro assist, bud built transfer case mount, locked front and rear. It is pretty well built under those butter flies.
she loves it, the looks the shunning, then the questions about half way down the trail. I think she plays the butter fly's up a lot.. lol.. then (the boys) find out.. lol..

I brag about my wife a lot.. she has beat cancer, had a half of a lung removed. but she is still out there getting it.