I get more feedback from the road than before but a lot better steering.
Help with diagnosing steering pull (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mike NXP
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- Thread starter
- #82
So would you agree the rack moving around a bit is not normal? I have a sneaking suspicion Toyota will tell me it's normal. Seems like the rack moving would directly relate to loose steering and improper alignment.
I'm not sure, mine doesn't move an eighth of an inch, if that...and I have 33s at 33psi on rough concrete - so a lot of load on the rack when static turning. I have the white line bushings.
- Thread starter
- #84
Toyota called , said the rack is perfectly fine and there's nothing wrong it. I asked them why two alignment shops said they can't align the vehicle because of the play in the rack and they assured my it's totally fine.
I'll look into the whiteline bushing mentioned.
That sounds like a pretty "Toyota dealership" move. They get zero dollars from you for fixing their work.
- Thread starter
- #86
Yeah, it's wild when alignment shops and myself can clearly identify the issue. They would get paid for the warranty of it but not as much. I suspect the average person wouldn't even notice this issue, sometimes it's good to just say f**k it and move on. Maybe I'll go worry about my "clunk" for a little while.
Did you ever figure out was causing your truck to pull? I’m having very similar situation to yours at the moment.
- Thread starter
- #88
I could be wrong but my tires appeared to be the root cause of my issue. Brand new Cooper ST Max.
So eventually the alignment shop gave it a hard left hand lean , way out of spec on the alignment rack, to counter the pull which did actually get me driving straight as an arrow. Fast forward to winter time I put my snow tires on and sure enough it pulled really hard left because of the lean they gave it. I am back within spec on the alignment rack and it's driving straight and I sold those tires.
It could have been related to other issues, my steering rack bushings ( new OEM ) are pretty soft and the rack has some wiggle in it, but I don't have any issues with my snow tires so I concluded it was those Cooper tires. Not that Cooper tires are bad but in my case it went hand and hand with a low speed vibration and a very hard pull that I experienced.
Hey @Mike NXP I got my weird steering wheel "off center randomly" thing sorted out.
It was the bushings in the OEM replacement steering rack done only 60k miles ago. I replaced them with whiteline Poly bushings and man oh man does this thing steer nice now. Instant feedback to the wheels, it returns to center perfectly every time and it really highlighted that it really DID used to wander/track a little off even though I didn't think it did. Just arrow straight now. A little more road feedback than I'd like but gladly will exchange that for this solid steering feel.
I also figured out what was happening. The OEM rubber bushings allow for about a 1/4" side to side play in the rack; BUT, the D bushing was still clamping really well. So when I would steer back and forth to look for play in the bushings in my driveway there would be normal movement and the rack would return normally.
BUT, when turning while driving and subjecting the steering to an impact like a bump or load like an incline, that 1/4" of side to side movement would happen, and the D bushing would "capture" the rack to the right side, holding the rack off center by 1/4" and resulting in the steering wheel holding about 20* off center. The vehicle would still track straight because the suspension alignment was correct; but the steering had shifted.
I can literally see the side to side "grating" of the bushing in the D bushing and the rack collar. I'll upload a photo when I can, but wanted to get you this feedback on the weird wheel thing you and I were experiencing.
I'm very glad its not the rack, and all of the horror stories about steering racks and bushings were in my case unfounded. It was a leisurely 2 hour job and cost all of...I think like $50 for the whiteline kit?
@Mike NXP here is the whiteline kit I used, and here is the relevant Torque specs and diagram for the earlier model 100's I referenced for torque specs.
The factory bushings didn't LOOK bad, but the Poly made a huge difference.
Diagram - credit goes to someone else on Mud for posting this:
The tools that I found made this a lot easier (you'll obviously need more tools than just these but these are important):
1/2" x one foot piece of all thread I had laying around from doing my #2 control arm frame bushings. 1/2" fender washers and a number of nuts to thread on. You'll use this to pull the new bushings through.
Flex head socket. I have a 1/2" x 14" one like this that made that top D bushing bolts a piece of cake.
I did use miscellaneous stuff, obviously an impact speeds things up and you'll use a 19mm wrench, pry bar, big screw driver, etc. but honestly it was easy.
The factory bushings didn't LOOK bad, but the Poly made a huge difference.
Diagram - credit goes to someone else on Mud for posting this:
The tools that I found made this a lot easier (you'll obviously need more tools than just these but these are important):
1/2" x one foot piece of all thread I had laying around from doing my #2 control arm frame bushings. 1/2" fender washers and a number of nuts to thread on. You'll use this to pull the new bushings through.
Flex head socket. I have a 1/2" x 14" one like this that made that top D bushing bolts a piece of cake.
I did use miscellaneous stuff, obviously an impact speeds things up and you'll use a 19mm wrench, pry bar, big screw driver, etc. but honestly it was easy.
Awesome thread. I just installed a new rack and got an alignment. It drove fine for a day or two and then started pulling right. I checked and rack is moving quite a bit. I am on 35s which aren’t helping. At first I thought it was tires, but I have swapped a bunch of positions and nothing is changing.
Anyone who has done poly bushings, how are they holding up? Think I am going to try this route.
Anyone who has done poly bushings, how are they holding up? Think I am going to try this route.
- Thread starter
- #92
Curious what your ride height ( center wheel hub to fender ) / rake is?
I found that when my ass end sits up a bit too high ( heavy coils without a lot of weight loaded in it ) I get a wandering feel at highway speeds..... I also found that the new OEM rack and all components do still show a bit of wiggle but I sort of like that especially when off roading to give everything a bit of flex
Tires are a huge factor in pull, especially oversized and deep lug tires.
Some roads pull me around and cause a bit of wander, other roads I drive on it stays straight as an arrow. I believe the more we lift and beef up tires the worse these vehicles will behave on the road .
I wouldn't remove your OEM setup for poly but thats just my opinion. Everytime you add an aftermarket part, a little piece of your land cruiser dies inside=]
- Thread starter
- #93
*** Damn, then again I just noticed the post @AlpineAccess from 2023 claiming poly bushing did help his symptoms lol
Going to read it a bit closer again and see if maybe this IS something I should consider. My steering is the most hated thing on my truck. And now that I own a GX470 I am realizing how sloppy my steering is at times.
Unfortunerly I am getting sort of tired of rolling around in my gravel driveway and wrenching on stuff like this. No lift, no garage = I may just pay someone to do this lol =[
Going to read it a bit closer again and see if maybe this IS something I should consider. My steering is the most hated thing on my truck. And now that I own a GX470 I am realizing how sloppy my steering is at times.
Unfortunerly I am getting sort of tired of rolling around in my gravel driveway and wrenching on stuff like this. No lift, no garage = I may just pay someone to do this lol =[
I ended up purchasing both the SuperPro and Whiteline bushings. They are both manufactured under parent company Zeder Products. The SuperPros are harder than the OEM rubber and the Whitelines are definitely harder than the SuperPros. I ended up installing the SuperPros. As others have suggested I want to keep the most amount of compliance in the system as possible. However, the OEM were just moving too much for me (see video below).
The SuperPro's are definitely an improvement. Before installing the new rack and getting an alignment, I also had a slight pull to the right, but nothing significant and I could ingore it most of the time. After installing the new rack (OEM) and getting an alignment, it drove great for a day and then the neutral steer position shifted right (CW) a good amount, like 10-15 deg., much worse as compared to the old rack. It was also pulling right. After installing the SuperPros my neutral steering position is the same (10-15 deg.) but at this position it drives perfectly straight with no pull. My theory is that the car was aligned while the rack was stuck in a semi-offset position (hence initially driving fine), but then the rack shifted back to the correct/centered position - hence the off centered steering wheel while now driving straight.
I think Alpine Access's assessment above is right on. The softness/hardness of the OEM bushings is right on the limit for stock vehicles, but as weight and/or tire size is increased, the OEM rubber is too soft for the increased steering resistance. If you are getting pull, I think it is worth trying at least the SuperPros; especially if you want to keep more compliance in the system. The Whitelines would probably clean up the steering even more but reduce compliance - pick your poison. Your comment re: "Everytime you add an aftermarket part, a little piece of your land cruiser dies inside" is so true -
. I think I might just adjust each of my tie rods the same set distance to re-center the steering wheel. If that doesn't work, I am going to get another alignment.
Here is the rack movement with SuperPros.
For reference, I probably have at least 200lbs extra weight at the front from a steel bumper, winch, sliders and skids. I also am running 35x12.5x17 mud tires at zero offset. So this should be pretty close to worst case scenario for rack bushing load. Picture of the old gal for reference:
For reference, I probably have at least 200lbs extra weight at the front from a steel bumper, winch, sliders and skids. I also am running 35x12.5x17 mud tires at zero offset. So this should be pretty close to worst case scenario for rack bushing load. Picture of the old gal for reference:
- Thread starter
- #96
I ended up purchasing both the SuperPro and Whiteline bushings. They are both manufactured under parent company Zeder Products. The SuperPros are harder than the OEM rubber and the Whitelines are definitely harder than the SuperPros. I ended up installing the SuperPros. As others have suggested I want to keep the most amount of compliance in the system as possible. However, the OEM were just moving too much for me (see video below).
The SuperPro's are definitely an improvement. Before installing the new rack and getting an alignment, I also had a slight pull to the right, but nothing significant and I could ingore it most of the time. After installing the new rack (OEM) and getting an alignment, it drove great for a day and then the neutral steer position shifted right (CW) a good amount, like 10-15 deg., much worse as compared to the old rack. It was also pulling right. After installing the SuperPros my neutral steering position is the same (10-15 deg.) but at this position it drives perfectly straight with no pull. My theory is that the car was aligned while the rack was stuck in a semi-offset position (hence initially driving fine), but then the rack shifted back to the correct/centered position - hence the off centered steering wheel while now driving straight.
I think Alpine Access's assessment above is right on. The softness/hardness of the OEM bushings is right on the limit for stock vehicles, but as weight and/or tire size is increased, the OEM rubber is too soft for the increased steering resistance. If you are getting pull, I think it is worth trying at least the SuperPros; especially if you want to keep more compliance in the system. The Whitelines would probably clean up the steering even more but reduce compliance - pick your poison. Your comment re: "Everytime you add an aftermarket part, a little piece of your land cruiser dies inside" is so true -
I think I might just adjust each of my tie rods the same set distance to re-center the steering wheel. If that doesn't work, I am going to get another alignment.
Damn this is awesome information. Thanks for sharing . It makes sense...after my new rack, tie rods , etc. were all installed, I went through Toyota and then Les Schwab to get an alignment and it never got any better ...
Eventually I brought it to some specialty truck shop for an alignment and he said" my rack bushings are shot" lol so I told him it was all new and he said it'll never align right because the rack is moving .
This was 1-2 years ago and I've just lived with it since.
I should seriously consider swapping these bushing to poly BUT I also seem to have a bit of play in my steering wheel that may be a factor. I notice a few degrees of wiggle with no effect to steering .
Ive thrown in the towel on trying to figure it out and will bring this into the mechanic soon .I really want to get it driving straight again
Ah heres the video I was looking for to show OEM rubber and new rack wiggle just for reference. All OEM with stock ko2 tires on gravel driveway. Not as bad as video posted above that's for sure but certainly some wiggle
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- Thread starter
- #97
@BAR is this what you went with? Just noticed it only shows LX470 but I assume same same for 100 series 98-02
>>Steering Rack & Pinion Mount Bushing Kit - https://superprousa.com/collections/bushings/products/spf2470k-superpro-steering-rack-pinion-mount-bush-kit
spf2470k
>>Steering Rack & Pinion Mount Bushing Kit - https://superprousa.com/collections/bushings/products/spf2470k-superpro-steering-rack-pinion-mount-bush-kit
spf2470k
Yes, that is what I installed. Looks like they are on sale! They were $79 a week ago.
I ended adjusting each of my TREs about 1.5 turns to shift the steering right, which was a little under 1/8". Steering is perfectly straight, best it has been in a long while.
- Thread starter
- #99
Thanks for the tip. I threw in the towel and dropped my rig at the mechanics. He agrees the rack is moving too much and decided to order some of the Whiteline bushing to replace the OEM
>> Do I need an alignment after this? Will see how it feels first I guess.
Part of me is excited to see if this does anything to help my steering pull.......The other part of me feels stupid for removing new OEM parts and installing these but something needed to be done.
Just realized I started this thread back in 2021, been living with it since. Never realized how much it bothered me until I got my GX470 and it rides like a dream, straight and smooth.
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I have clunk thread deja vu
I have had the right pull since I got the car. Multiple alignments at different places & 5k miles tyre rotations. Took it apart, removed the chassis, replaced all the bushings - every single one, control arms, no2 on the frame, panhard, diff, rack bushings. Had the steering rack refurbished, replaced both outer tie rod ends. Still pulls?!?!
I have VGRS, tried to centre with Techstream - still pulls?!
I will be replacing inner ends this weekend due to play in one, but I doubt it will help.
Why do all our trucks pull to the right? Isn't it strange?
