Help with diagnosing steering pull (1 Viewer)

[Mike NXP]

I'm working to get the steering and front end feeling better on my cruiser.

Here is what I am up against.

Problem

• Vehicle drifts to the right fairly rapidly, most noticeable at highway speeds around 60-65
• If I let off the wheel, within 2-3 seconds I would be in the ditch.
• It's not a hard / grabbing type of pull but just drifts pretty quickly.
• If I hold the wheel centered(very slightly left) it drives pretty straight.

A key hint that may help diagnose this:

• When I take a slight left turn, I can then let off the wheel and the wheel springs back to center pretty nicely as expected.
• When I take a slight right turn and then left off the wheel, it just kind of stays there, and doesn't come back to center

I also have a slight knocking when off roading that I feel in the steering column and hear in the cab but that's for another day and another thread

Troubleshooting

• Alignment performed at Toyota, 3 times. The verdict was " the vehicle just pulls to the right" The alignment print out looked good.
• Tie rods and steering components all feel tight. I need to take a closer look at steering rack bushing now that the snow is melting and I can crawl under there.
• I noticed my rear right sits and inch higher then rear left, I don't think thats the issue. If anything I think that would have the opposite effect and steer me to the left.
• The crown in the road is not the problem, I hit the same Montana highway everyday and there are some flat parts. Even on a road with a crown if I go on the left side it will steer me up and over it.
• New tires installed. Cooper STMAX . Had the same problem on last set of tires as well so don't think its tire related
• When driving straight, I can let off the wheel and hit the brakes and it stays pretty straight. This leads me to think this is not related to any brake pull or bearing issues.
  
  
  
  Anyone else experiencing this? Any tips to help diagnose?
  
  
  I feel like as this rig ages the steering is obviously getting sloppy. I want to stay on top of it but I also don't want to break the bank and start rebuilding s*** that's not needed.

 

[87warrior]

I will follow this as I have the same right hand pull. It has had the pull since I bought it 90k miles ago. I've had 3 alignments done and over the years have replaced every suspension part other than the rear panhard bar and lower control arm bushings. The steering rack and tie rod ends were replaced and the wheel bearings are new. I've just learned to live with it.

The right hand pull did get a little worse when I transitioned from the Cooper AT3 to the ST Maxx.

 

[AlpineAccess]

I have something very similar!

Have you replaced your lower control arms? It's what I think is causing it as its the only part I haven't replaced in the front suspension. I've found that if I take a hard left turn out of a parking lot and get going it isn't pulling, which says to me there is a shift happening somewhere that is causing the tracking. The only thing I can figure is a bushing is shifting.

 

[AlpineAccess]

I think we're onto something with the front LCA's seeing @87warrior's response.

I too have replaced every suspension component except LCA's and my steering rack is OEM Denso from 40k ago. I'm pretty enthusiastic about the idea we have others with this issue who are actually able to articulate what's going on (I have not been able to up to this point).

 

[4runnerteq]

Swap the front tires side to side and see if anything changes. And, just because the alignment is "green" doesnt mean some adjustment cant be made to track straight and still be in spec. Every now and then one of my techs will try that. Its all "green" boss. Might be, but it can stay in the green and be adjusted to track straight if somethings not bent or worn out.

 

[thebeedeegee]

Dude, I have the exact same thing. Got worse after I replaced my ball joints. Thought my alignment was off. Got it aligned, no better (and it was barely out) Took it back and they said the steering wheel was slightly out of center, and they fixed it......felt exactly the same.

I just ordered the tie rod kit (inners and outers) from Cruiser Outfitters since I had a bit of play on the driver side and a tiny bit on the passenger

The road crown does seem to effect mine, if I drive on the opposite side of the road (when safe) it will track true and straight on the side that's crowned the other way.

 

[thebeedeegee]

I have something very similar!

Have you replaced your lower control arms? It's what I think is causing it as its the only part I haven't replaced in the front suspension. I've found that if I take a hard left turn out of a parking lot and get going it isn't pulling, which says to me there is a shift happening somewhere that is causing the tracking. The only thing I can figure is a bushing is shifting.

hmmmm mine may be similar to this to.

 

[Mike NXP]

I think we're onto something with the front LCA's seeing @87warrior's response.

I too have replaced every suspension component except LCA's and my steering rack is OEM Denso from 40k ago. I'm pretty enthusiastic about the idea we have others with this issue who are actually able to articulate what's going on (I have not been able to up to this point).

Suspension up front is pretty tight but you're right I have not tested lower control arm bushings for wear. Visually they look good. Unfortunately I live on a slanted gravel driveway so I don't like jacking up the truck and getting anywhere under it. I am taking the word of Toyota that " everything up front is tight"
>>This is something I will look into for sure

Lower ball joints were replaced not too long ago but no love to the bushings or upper BJ. I was ready to condemn the steering rack as my problem, just not doing what it should be doing but idk.

I could see the control arm bushings effecting it's tracking, but when I let off the wheel at 50-60mph it should spring back to center just like it does when I turn left.

Swap the front tires side to side and see if anything changes. And, just because the alignment is "green" doesnt mean some adjustment cant be made to track straight and still be in spec. Every now and then one of my techs will try that. Its all "green" boss. Might be, but it can stay in the green and be adjusted to track straight if somethings not bent or worn out.

Toyota cross rotated and tried several variations of tire mounting with no change, sometimes it made it worse they claim.

I will follow this as I have the same right hand pull. It has had the pull since I bought it 90k miles ago. I've had 3 alignments done and over the years have replaced every suspension part other than the rear panhard bar and lower control arm bushings. The steering rack and tie rod ends were replaced and the wheel bearings are new. I've just learned to live with it.

The right hand pull did get a little worse when I transitioned from the Cooper AT3 to the ST Maxx.

Good advice, Yeah I have had 3 alignments just this year =] Toyota twice, les schwab once, they all just say "yeah it pulls right "

Dude, I have the exact same thing. Got worse after I replaced my ball joints. Thought my alignment was off. Got it aligned, no better (and it was barely out) Took it back and they said the steering wheel was slightly out of center, and they fixed it......felt exactly the same.

I just ordered the tie rod kit (inners and outers) from Cruiser Outfitters since I had a bit of play on the driver side and a tiny bit on the passenger

The road crown does seem to effect mine, if I drive on the opposite side of the road (when safe) it will track true and straight on the side that's crowned the other way.

Feeling a little better that it's not just me. Old heavy truck with beefy tires is bound to have a little bit of tracking but this just seems reckless, If I stop paying attention for a few seconds I am in the ditch.

 

[4runnerteq]

Have a pic of the alignment sheet?

 

[gwatts]

Mine has always drifted right through multiple tires/wheels and green alignments. I need new LBJs and like you I have replaced all else up there.
I will be getting complete LCAs + 3rd bushing that doesn't come with it this summer.
Will follow up if that changes anything.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Suspension up front is pretty tight but you're right I have not tested lower control arm bushings for wear. Visually they look good. Unfortunately I live on a slanted gravel driveway so I don't like jacking up the truck and getting anywhere under it. I am taking the word of Toyota that " everything up front is tight"
>>This is something I will look into for sure

Lower ball joints were replaced not too long ago but no love to the bushings or upper BJ. I was ready to condemn the steering rack as my problem, just not doing what it should be doing but idk.

I could see the control arm bushings effecting it's tracking, but when I let off the wheel at 50-60mph it should spring back to center just like it does when I turn left.



Toyota cross rotated and tried several variations of tire mounting with no change, sometimes it made it worse they claim.


Good advice, Yeah I have had 3 alignments just this year =] Toyota twice, les schwab once, they all just say "yeah it pulls right "



Feeling a little better that it's not just me. Old heavy truck with beefy tires is bound to have a little bit of tracking but this just seems reckless, If I stop paying attention for a few seconds I am in the ditch.

My bushings look ok as well, but I've got to assume that with almost 200k they are dried out and allowing some movement - even if a small amount while driving, and/or a small amount the other direction while getting an alignment, it would add up to enough.

For yours I'd also take a look at checking your bearing pretension to see if you have more tension on side or another?

 

[Ayune]

I replaced both LCAs a couple years ago, my truck still pulls to the right, albeit more subtly than you folks are describing. Les Schwab alignment didn’t help.

I did about 5 minutes of research and suspect that the UCA eccentric would need to be adjusted to change the wheel caster... or was it camber, I dunno. I have learned to live with it.

Has anyone adjusted their UCA’s eccentric mount to correct alignment issues?

 

[Mike NXP]

Have a pic of the alignment sheet?

 

[Mike NXP]

I'm not convinced this is an issue with a poor alignment but I could be wrong.

If I hold my wheel straight, the vehicle drives straight. Doesn't that tell us it is aligned properly?

The problem is, to hold it straight I am having to apply a bit of counter clockwise pressure, and when I release that pressure it just fades out to the right.

When turning on a slight right bend and then releasing the wheel it just stays there, and doesn't spring back to center. If I take a slight left bend and release the wheel, it springs back to center as expected.

 

[4runnerteq]

Yep, alignment is perfectly centered. However, you could go more negative to the left caster and more positive on the right caster which should make it track more left. Maybe even go a little more positive camber on the left and negative on the right. You have adjustment there to drive straight and stay in spec. Alignment is kind of a lost art. Most folks now days center it all up and say "there ya go". In most cases it works great, but not all.

 

[Mike NXP]

Yep, alignment is perfectly centered. However, you could go more negative to the left caster and more positive on the right caster which should make it track more left. Maybe even go a little more positive camber on the left and negative on the right. You have adjustment there to drive straight and stay in spec. Alignment is kind of a lost art. Most folks now days center it all up and say "there ya go". In most cases it works great, but not all.

So you would say the issue is simply due to alignment? Or are you suggesting adjusting the alignment to mask whatever is causing the pull in the first place?


I am still left wondering why the wheel doesnt return to center and thinking something else is going on down there.

 

[BILT4ME]

If any of these have a lift, could it be that a rear panhard bar bracket to raise the axle side of the bracket get the panhard bar more level and better center the rear axle under the truck?

Delta V's bracket like for the 80 series?
@Delta VS

I also see a bit of toe-out on the final numbers, which can cause the feel of pulling or grabbing lines in the road.

Right on the one sheet, it states that out of spec cross-camber can cause the truck to pull to the right. The RF still has more camber than the LF. Make the equal or adjust them to opposite what they are now to see if it pulls left or tracks straight.

Not returning to center is typically a caster problem.

 

[4runnerteq]

Very well could have something else going on. I do think you could at the very least make it drive straighter with adjustment. Need a seasoned alignment person that will actually try to diagnose the issue, repair or adjust as needed. Hard to find these days. 35 years of car business I've know one. If you had a pull he could fix it. One of my techs a few years back was really good, if he couldnt fix it he could cover it with adjustment. And sometimes, we had an older Avalon one time and no matter what we did it always had a slight drift one way even if we set it up to pull the opposite way.

 

[Delta VS]

If any of these have a lift, could it be that a rear panhard bar bracket to raise the axle side of the bracket get the panhard bar more level and better center the rear axle under the truck?

Delta V's bracket like for the 80 series?
@Delta VS

I also see a bit of toe-out on the final numbers, which can cause the feel of pulling or grabbing lines in the road.

Right on the one sheet, it states that out of spec cross-camber can cause the truck to pull to the right. The RF still has more camber than the LF. Make the equal or adjust them to opposite what they are now to see if it pulls left or tracks straight.

Not returning to center is typically a caster problem.

Like this? Delta Vehicle Systems - 100 Series Panhard Drop Bracket - https://www.deltavs.com/all-products/100-series-panhard-drop-bracket

 

[Mike NXP]

If any of these have a lift, could it be that a rear panhard bar bracket to raise the axle side of the bracket get the panhard bar more level and better center the rear axle under the truck?

Delta V's bracket like for the 80 series?
@Delta VS

I also see a bit of toe-out on the final numbers, which can cause the feel of pulling or grabbing lines in the road.

Right on the one sheet, it states that out of spec cross-camber can cause the truck to pull to the right. The RF still has more camber than the LF. Make the equal or adjust them to opposite what they are now to see if it pulls left or tracks straight.

Not returning to center is typically a caster problem.

I am at stock ride height, slightly lower since I have too much weight in the rear. Panhard bar is new OEM.

Will learn to live with this over time, but for now it will drive me crazy.