Help please: front end clunking after CV axle replacement

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oftpiste

10 Year
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Threads
24
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367
Location
Seattle
2003 LC, 148k miles, OME 1.5' lift installed by previous owner including the notoriously stiff OME shocks.

Recently had my CV axles replaced with OEMs at my long time shop. They're not a Toyota or LC shop but I trust them and have done business there for many years. I like that they have a loaner fleet, I know everyone there by name, can drop by to ask questions without an appointment, walk into the shop and look at the vehicle being worked on etc., all things one can't really do at a busy urban dealership.

The replacement was done because the ones on the truck were cheap replacement parts which I had discovered after reading through service records, one boot had failed and there was a persistent rotational noise which has now gone away. All the suspension bolts and bushings were checked/tightened during the job.

Pretty much from the time I picked the truck up after the repair I thought I heard a new clunking sound when going over bumps - mostly sounding like it was coming from the driver's side - in the front end that didn't seem to have been there before. I drove it around for a week to be sure I was't imagining it as I am kind of hyper about noises like that.

Convinced I wasn't hallucinating the sound, I took it by my shop today and on a test drive they heard/felt it too and agreed it wasn't present previously. We put it up on the rack and noticed that when rocking both front wheels some play was apparent with slightly more on the passenger side, though this didn't generate any clunking. Of course it certainly could have when under load. We have no idea if this play was present prior to the axle replacement.

The tech said if it were a Subaru or Saab (which is what they mostly work on) he'd think it was a shock going bad, though there is no evidence of leakage. These shocks are not more than a few years old and the truck is not driven much on rough surfaces. He suggested we both do a little research and see what we could find, so here I am. They always stand behind their work so that's not an issue. The just want to get it right for me.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Is there a trick to the CV installation they might not have known about?
Why would it suddenly show up after the repair?
Anything I should suggest they look into?

Your thoughts and suggestions are most welcome, and thank you in advance.
 
Wheel/hub bearings not adjusted to spec? Did they reuse/over-stretch the outer CV axle snap-ring to the point it isn't in place now? Did they get the caliper bolts, steering arm, upper and lower ball joints torqued properly? Did they clean but forget/not know to lube the inner spindle-needle bearing(s)? Loose belly/skid?

If its a high miler it might also be worn front diff mount bushings...if so then its just a strange untimely coincidence regarding your recent work.

Easy to miss anyone or more of these especially if they don't work on LCs regularly...pro or not.
 
thank you spressomon. I'll bring all these to their attention. it's got 150k miles. Would the diff mount bushings cause play in the front wheels? That part seems odd. When you say 'belly/skid are you referring to the protective plate?

Am I right to presume there shouldn't be any play in the front wheels when rocked on the rack?

I always figured there was a possibility of them missing something not being intimate with the 100, but I do know they'll make it right.

Sorry to be so ignorant. I'm a 1/2 banana guy.
 
oftpiste said:
thank you spressomon. I'll bring all these to their attention. it's got 150k miles. Would the diff mount bushings cause play in the front wheels? That part seems odd. When you say 'belly/skid are you referring to the protective plate?

Am I right to presume there shouldn't be any play in the front wheels when rocked on the rack?

I always figured there was a possibility of them missing something not being intimate with the 100, but I do know they'll make it right.

Sorry to be so ignorant. I'm a 1/2 banana guy.
Click to expand...

As a 1/2:banana: dude myself (getting better), I can answer a couple of these.
When you say 'belly/skid are you referring to the protective plate? - Yep, there's a tin front and a plastic middle. Very mickey mouse parts relative to the rest of our overbuilt cruisers.

Am I right to presume there shouldn't be any play in the front wheels when rocked on the rack? I've been chasing down some mushy feelings in my front end, and from endless forum research I believe this to be correct. No play that you can create with your hands.

The diff mount bushings causing play seems odd to me too, but I'll defer to the more experienced folks on that one.
 
@oftpiste Hey I know this is probably something they checked, but it happened to me on my 03 right after having the CV's redone. The sound was a clunking figured shocks or something. Finally, it got real bad so I took off the wheel and then the cap and there was part of a clip in there. Seemed the clip that holds the CV in had broken (I know very rare) and was causing the CV to move on the driver side. Unfortunately, this caused the cv to take some damage on that end. It was replaced the shop that did the work gave me a full refund and they said got a refund from Toyota on the part, had a local shop to me to the work this time. Might be something to check out ......
 
thanks very much. heading for the shop tomorrow with all this info.
 
There shouldn't be any play in the wheel bearings. If you grab the CV-joint, there will be a slight play, even when it's new. In addition to the tip about the C-clip, also check the spindle bearings. This is often skipped even by experienced techs.
 
So we found out the major clunk was caused by the left front hub having somehow become slightly misshapen (they said it looked like someone had been pounding on the hub with something - Les Schwab during a wheel change perhaps?) so that the wheel didn't fully mount. This has been corrected and much of the clunk has gone. Still, there is some 'looseness' I feel and hear when hitting bumps in normal driving. It seems the front end should really feel tighter than it does.

Techs suggested that because there are taper bearings (this is over my pay grade, but apparently most newer front wheel bearings are cartridges these days?) that do get worn that this may be the cause of the play in the front wheels which leads me to feel like something is still not quite right. They said they felt the play in the front wheels prior to the CV replacement but I really don't recall noticing it before. Of course at this point I'm hyper-sensitive to any little noises and sensations.

When you say 'check the spindle bearings', what exactly do they need to be checked for? Other thoughts? Thanks everyone. Wish I were a wrench.
 
pounding on hub... - that would be during brake rotor change, e.g. (b@stards to get off)

Front wheel bearings are conical, yes, and very easy to tighten, in case of any play. They need regular maintenance, but can keep nearly as long as any other part of the car.
Otherwise, there can be play in the ball joints.

Spindle bearings: Check that they are there (not disintegrated) an lubed. If they run dry, or washed out with water, the needle bearing will fall apart; which results in noise and vibration in the drive shafts, and a worn out drive shaft, brass bushing and oil seal.
 
oftpiste said:
So we found out the major clunk was caused by the left front hub having somehow become slightly misshapen (they said it looked like someone had been pounding on the hub with something - Les Schwab during a wheel change perhaps?) so that the wheel didn't fully mount. This has been corrected and much of the clunk has gone. Still, there is some 'looseness' I feel and hear when hitting bumps in normal driving. It seems the front end should really feel tighter than it does.

Techs suggested that because there are taper bearings (this is over my pay grade, but apparently most newer front wheel bearings are cartridges these days?) that do get worn that this may be the cause of the play in the front wheels which leads me to feel like something is still not quite right. They said they felt the play in the front wheels prior to the CV replacement but I really don't recall noticing it before. Of course at this point I'm hyper-sensitive to any little noises and sensations.

When you say 'check the spindle bearings', what exactly do they need to be checked for? Other thoughts? Thanks everyone. Wish I were a wrench.
Click to expand...
front hub flange takes a beating getting the cone washers off the studs.
use of brass (drift, hammer, etc... ) is needed to avoid damaging the flange.

The hub itself is a pretty good stout piece of steel. Unless they beat it senseless when removing the rotor and damaged the grooves which go back into drive shaft area.
 
Nottajeep said:
front hub flange takes a beating getting the cone washers off the studs.
use of brass (drift, hammer, etc... ) is needed to avoid damaging the flange.
Click to expand...
No pounding on the hub to get cones off. One or two blows on a brass drift on the bolt end will do nicely. IF they are not over-tightened (only 24 foot-pound).
 
Spindle bearings were lubed and intact. I have an appointment to have the cone bearings tightened and greased. The shop's concern is that tightening them will actually decrease their life due to increased friction, but that after tightening I should still get 10-15k miles out of them. Their preference is to replace them completely with new (not in a way where they're trying to sell me something), but I don't really feel like spending the money right now. Unless maybe it's important?

Any further thoughts? Is there something different about these particular cone bearings than other cars that have them? I understand they've been phased out for some kind of cartridge bearing in most cars now?

All the help is much appreciated.



uHu said:
pounding on hub... - that would be during brake rotor change, e.g. (b@stards to get off)

Front wheel bearings are conical, yes, and very easy to tighten, in case of any play. They need regular maintenance, but can keep nearly as long as any other part of the car.
Otherwise, there can be play in the ball joints.

Spindle bearings: Check that they are there (not disintegrated) an lubed. If they run dry, or washed out with water, the needle bearing will fall apart; which results in noise and vibration in the drive shafts, and a worn out drive shaft, brass bushing and oil seal.
Click to expand...
 
Once you get the taper roller bearings removed & cleaned up you should be able to discern whether they are worn (along with clean-up and inspection of the bearing's mating races).

Look/mic for out of round rollers, pitted or burnished surfaces, etc. If it was me and the rig has been driven for any length of time with loose bearing adjustment I'd punt and have new bearings and races installed. Call it peace of mind and an investment in same.

Also FWIW the front drive hub system is a "full float" style. And although there are exceptions generally FF systems utilize tapered roller bearings. Whereas the semi-float rear axle drive system on 100-Series (and other Toyota models) utilize sealed "cartridge" style bearings. The latter are not serviceable, generally can't be field serviced (and few home mechanics would be able to R&R) and you can't inspect them for wear. But they generally extend the service interval...all things being equal.
 
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I have an appointment to get the cone bearings tightened and greased. The shop told me their concern was that the bearings would actually last longer a little bit looser but with a snugging up I should still get 15k miles or so out of them before replacing. I would prefer not to spend the bearing replacement money at the moment if possible and thought this might be a solution that will buy me some time.

I wish I knew whether they've been loose for any length of time. The clunking made me pretty hyper sensitive to any sounds up there. My techs are sure there was play there before and I do believe them but it never seemed apparent until recently and now drives me nuts.
 
Doesn't that assembly need to come off for the CV replacement? I don't think they messed with it, just that they put it back together the way they found it after CV's. Sorry, wish I was more articulate on these subjects!
 
Nope. Just pop the cap off and take off the clip. This is how it disconnects from the hub. Im sure they're couple ways of removing the complete axle but this is how I do it. Pop the axle out from the diff, disconnect the upper control arm from the spindle. Move the axle out of the diff while simultaneously let the spindle/hub hang out-board away from the truck. Take the axle end that came out the diff and maneuver it down and out below the diff.
 
oftpiste said:
I have an appointment to get the cone bearings tightened and greased. The shop told me their concern was that the bearings would actually last longer a little bit looser but with a snugging up I should still get 15k miles or so out of them before replacing. I would prefer not to spend the bearing replacement money at the moment if possible and thought this might be a solution that will buy me some time.

I wish I knew whether they've been loose for any length of time. The clunking made me pretty hyper sensitive to any sounds up there. My techs are sure there was play there before and I do believe them but it never seemed apparent until recently and now drives me nuts.
Click to expand...
If you check the bearings and find that they are OK, they will last much more than another 15k, e.g. 150k; if they have the right preload... If they are not ok, they should be changed right away.
So, dismantle, clean, veryfy OK, repack, mount and adjust.

Clunking most likely comes from brake parts touching if the bearings are loose.
 
gotcha. so what is the 'right' pre-load?

thanks all!
 
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