HELP! HJ45 Glow Plug Controller heating too fast (1 Viewer)

[athensrep]

Hey guys,

Finally joined after reading for a long, long time. I got a HJ45 Trakka Troopy last year as a trade and so far it's been pretty great (aside from a mysterious over pressurized cooling system - save that for another day). The truck has the original H motor with a manual glow set up of some kind. I ran into some issues when I installed a manual-choke style EDIC control cable last week. Unbeknownst to me at the time, after I ran the cable it was touching one of the threads of a glow plug. After getting it back together and trying to glow it, I hit the button and the glow plug controller heated up in literally 3 seconds to a white, burning toaster oven. I could feel the heat and smell that burning paint. It suddenly popped and that was that. Dumb-ass me retraced the steps to find out the shorting out on the glow plug thread. I rerouted the EDIC cable and ordered a new controller.

Now, I put the new controller in today and it's not only glowing in less than 5 seconds when I push the glow button; it's also glowing when I attempt to crank it. I shut it off and came here for guidance.

Also, before this mess happened, the glow plug controller would never light. The "brake" check light would turn on with the turn of the ignition switch. Now it does not light - only now, the glow plug controller comes on. It did not glow before. I would turn ignition, depress button, wait 10-15 seconds, and it'd crank every time.

•*Manual glow plug system (got it that way, do not know specifics on it other there is a engagement button on the dash)
• Glow plug relay is audibly clicking upon engagement (could I have shorted this out even though it's clicking?)
• No fuses are blown
• EDIC cable is out of the way.
• Under the dash, there are no exposed wires. Wiring looks OK.
• New controller is installed.


If you guys can help, it'd be great. Really don't want to take this to a shop as I'll be a consenting rape victim. Maybe it's the relay? I'll stop messing around under the hood without triple checking my work.

thanks in advance.

 

[bj40green]

Welcome to the madness.

Let's start at the beginning. Is your Cruiser 12V or 24V?
For a 12V HJ Cruiser the controller part number should be: 28550-47021 and your glow plugs should be 8.5V.
For a 24V HJ Cruiser the controller part number should be: 28550-47030 and your plugs should be 20.5V
If you bought a controller for a BJ.,that one will glow faster and finally burn up.

If you hear the click from the glow relay when you turn the key to the glow position (counter clockwise) that means that it's working.

The glow circuit is also activated while cranking.

Do you have a momentary switch for glowing on the dash like this one?
This is a factory switch for the cold climates to use it for after glow.


Rudi

Can put your Cruiser info in your signature line? That way we don't have to ask for year, 12 or 24V, modifications, etc.

 

[athensrep]

Hey Rudi. Thanks for the reply - wish participating it was on better terms - like helping someone instead of this situation.

It's an Aussie 12v with external voltage regulator. I do have the correct controller per your advice. I did pulled the plugs last night and tested them (NGK 10.5v). All test OK. The busbar is fine.

I don't have a factory glow step in the ignition (see image). I only have the factory "looking" round button to the left of the wiper switch. I checked under the dash for any potential grounding problems, but didn't see anything that stood out. Could it be in the loom? Also, the controller glows to red-hot when you manually glow it (under 5 seconds) and when you try to crank the truck (turn the key to "start" and crank and it glows like mad). Before this mess happened, I would manually glow it for 15 seconds and it would crank every time. I have never see the controller heat up before. Honestly, I didn't think it was even working.

What do think I should test next?

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Do you have a factory glow relay mounted on the passenger side firewall behind the heater intake duct? You should hear it click on and off when you press your dash mounted glow switch.

10.5V plugs aren't the correct plugs for a factory setup. But I'm guessing you don't have a factory setup. Could you check the VIN number on the factory plate in the engine compartment? I'm guessing you have an FJ45 chassis that someone previously had converted to a diesel. Or they swapped in a steering column/key switch from an FJ45. The 1979 and 1980 H diesel HJ45s should have the manual glow on the key switch.

 

[bj40green]

From what you say I have the idea that the controller is not wired in correctly.
Maybe the controller is wired to ground like a light bulb instead of wired in series to six 8.5V glow plugs.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this is the problem.
The fact that you have 10.5v plugs confirms to me that it is/was a "Wilson switch" set up.
A Wilson switch set up is just a momentary switch with 10.5V glow plugs.


Does this make sense?

Rudi

 

[RufusTheDufus]

A quick check for voltage at the bus bar during glow would provide some indication of wiring.

 

[athensrep]

Here's the dash... (I tried a few ways to upload this photo, but forgive me as it keep showing up wrong-side-up).

 

[athensrep]

Thanks for the reply.

I do have the factory glow relay on the bulkhead near the heater ducts. You hear an audible "click" with the push of the glow button.

It is a factory HJ45 per the Aussie vin plate and the Factory vin plate. Even has the kangaroo on the head. What's strange, from what you said, is the ignition key works the doors so someone must have swapped all the key cylinders out. Got me. No telling how many owners have had this. I took it over to ACC in Atlanta and they comment on how original the cruiser is. I guess besides this wiring issue, not much has been messed with - but I'm reading differently.

Maybe it is the Wilson switch - makes sense. Still don't know where this could be grounding out...

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Is your glow switch the push button above the radio slot? That's a perfect location to intercept the wire that once went from the ignition switch to the stock glow relay on the firewall. It's a somewhat common modification to provide manual/afterglow control using the stock glow controller setup.

Do you have a voltmeter available to measure the voltage to the plugs and possibly on each side of the glow controller?

It's possible your old glow controller went bad at some point and a previous owner simply bypassed it by swapping wires on the terminals. The glow controller looks like a 1 ohm resistor when cold and increases resistance as it heats up.

Which makes me wonder.... Did you use the insulators on the terminal lugs when installing the new glow controller? It's easy to accidentally create a short to ground if the terminals aren't insulated properly from their mounting bracket to the dash.

 

[athensrep]

You guessed right - it's the button above the radio. Do you suggest to measure voltage at that point (and at the controller)? I could do that this evening. Would that explain as to why the controller lights when I crank it?

Insulators? I'm afraid I don't know. I wired it back up the same as the original controller that I took out. Do you have an image for me to reference.


Thanks for all the feedback, gentlemen. Much appreciated.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

I'll see if I can find a photo. There should be some non-conductive washers or spacers that isolate the current carried from the wires to the posts on the two sides of the glow controller coil. I've read some posts here in the past where those insulators have failed causing a dead short to ground.

I'd measure the voltage at the glow plug bus bar as the first step. Measuring at the push button switch won't tell us much. That's just activating the stock glow plug relay with a low current voltage source. The places to measure would be the heavy gauge wire connection points on the glow relay, each side of the the glow controller coil and at the connection to the glow plug bus bar.

It would be good to check for continuity to ground at any of these places too.

 

[bj40green]

It should look like this

I think that one side of your controller is grounded (like a light bulb) and that the controller is not in series with the glow plugs.
Can you take a picture of that controller hanging out under the dash?

FYI: The wiring should be: Black from glow relay to glow controller and Black/Yellow from glow controller to Glow plug busbar. So at the controller there should be a Black and a Black/Yellow wire. See picture aboce.

Rudi

 

[athensrep]

The voltage from the connection at the busbar is 12+v constant. When engaged I'm looking at it dropping down to a little over 8v. I can't get better reading than that as the thing lights up like a toaster oven within 4 seconds.

I'll shoot a pic of the controller dangling down.

 

[athensrep]

In all it's glory...

 

[bj40green]

Nothing wrong with that controller. Wiring looks good. Black and Black/Yellow.

Back to your first post. You wrote:
..... Also, before this mess happened, the glow plug controller would never light. The "brake" check light would turn on with the turn of the ignition switch. Now it does not light - only now, the glow plug controller comes on. It did not glow before. I would turn ignition, depress button, wait 10-15 seconds, and it'd crank every time.....

Do I read correctly that the controller lits up when you turn the key in the "on" position and that the brake warning light doesn't lit up anymore?

Can you post a picture from the glow relay and tell us what wire colors are connected to the S, B and G terminals?

Rudi

 

[athensrep]

Correct. Before I Fubared this, my startup procedure was this:
Switch to on position, engage glow via button for 10-15 seconds, crank and go. Never saw the controller light before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the brake check light should be on when key is in on position - pretty standard, right? After my controller glowed to red hot and burned out, the brake light has failed to light too. Could be coincidence?

I'll shoot an image of the relay and wiring.

Thanks guys.

 

[bj40green]

Could be that the brake light wiring is damaged by overheating from the controller if the wiring runs in that same area. Just a guess because yours is a RHD and I'm not familiar with RHD.

Rudi

 

[athensrep]

To clarify, the controller glows hot and fast in two scenarios; when just cranking the truck and when depressing the glow button. It's never done this before in either case.

Here's an image of the relay:

 

[bj40green]

Looking good too. All wires in the right place.
Black on G, Black/Red on B and Black/Yellow on S.

So the next step is.... is the Black/Yellow connected to the busbar or is that a different wire? Picture please.

FYI; the glow plugs are live/hot/active while glowing AND cranking, so that's normal.

In the meantime, can you check voltage on both sides of the controller?
I think I know the answers but I want to be sure.
Left side to ground, right side to ground and left to right side.

There is more bubbling in my mind but that's the next step.

It's 00.35 here in Costa Rica so it's time for a and some sleep.

Rudi

 

[RufusTheDufus]

The voltage from the connection at the busbar is 12+v constant.

Just want to be sure I understand this. When you turn on the key to the run position you get 12V at the glow plug bus bar? If you press the glow plug momentary switch it drops to roughly 8.5v?

You should only have voltage on the bus bar when you are pressing the glow switch.